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    So ever since I moved out of London, I have always had a desire to go back. I have always wanted to work in business/in the city and really think that investment banking would suit me well - I work best under pressure, am motivated by targets as well as being motivated by money (something I know is probably controversial but investment banking does seem to favour individuals who are).

    Am I being an idiot by trying to get into this industry without going to uni? I am fully aware that uni is the easiest and simplest route into these types of jobs however I have started to see that banks and wealth management companies are now beginning to offer apprenticeships in banking and some companies such as BP and Trafigura are offering specific trading apprenticeships:
    http://futuretalent.trafigura.com/en...pprenticeship/

    Anyone got any experience with these types of programmes or heard anything about them? Another thing that might make a difference (not sure if it does nowadays) is that my family are generally well connected and have worked in business in London for years. Could connections help with this career path?

    Thanks in advance.
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    (Original post by dwinnbrown)
    So ever since I moved out of London, I have always had a desire to go back. I have always wanted to work in business/in the city and really think that investment banking would suit me well - I work best under pressure, am motivated by targets as well as being motivated by money (something I know is probably controversial but investment banking does seem to favour individuals who are).

    Am I being an idiot by trying to get into this industry without going to uni? I am fully aware that uni is the easiest and simplest route into these types of jobs however I have started to see that banks and wealth management companies are now beginning to offer apprenticeships in banking and some companies such as BP and Trafigura are offering specific trading apprenticeships:
    http://futuretalent.trafigura.com/en...pprenticeship/

    Anyone got any experience with these types of programmes or heard anything about them? Another thing that might make a difference (not sure if it does nowadays) is that my family are generally well connected and have worked in business in London for years. Could connections help with this career path?

    Thanks in advance.
    Very necessary and makes life much easier. Getting into front office by working your way up through a bank is nowhere near as likely as it was in the 80s and 90s, nowadays the competition is fierce and unless you're a networking virtuoso, it would be extremely rare to get a shot.

    Apprenticeships that have sprouted are mostly in back office or accounting roles with very limited scope to transfer into the revenue generating businesses.

    Physical commods shops are somewhat different to banks and I wouldn't characterise traders there as 'city traders' - these guys rely on networks and prior operations training to do what they do. Almost no one starts out with PnL until they've at least been through the gamut of scheduling, desk analysis and some cases field work etc.. It's only after all of that where one might have the possibility of becoming a physical trader - more often, folks don't get to become one and are 'stuck' with more of a support role.

    Connections help, but they won't perform miracles.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Very necessary and makes life much easier. Getting into front office by working your way up through a bank is nowhere near as likely as it was in the 80s and 90s, nowadays the competition is fierce and unless you're a networking virtuoso, it would be extremely rare to get a shot.

    Apprenticeships that have sprouted are mostly in back office or accounting roles with very limited scope to transfer into the revenue generating businesses.

    Physical commods shops are somewhat different to banks and I wouldn't characterise traders there as 'city traders' - these guys rely on networks and prior operations training to do what they do. Almost no one starts out with PnL until they've at least been through the gamut of scheduling, desk analysis and some cases field work etc.. It's only after all of that where one might have the possibility of becoming a physical trader - more often, folks don't get to become one and are 'stuck' with more of a support role.

    Connections help, but they won't perform miracles.

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    Ok many thanks for a very fair and reasonable answer

    I will have to consider just how much I want it I guess and make the uni decision based on that.

    Cheers
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    (Original post by dwinnbrown)
    Ok many thanks for a very fair and reasonable answer

    I will have to consider just how much I want it I guess and make the uni decision based on that.

    Cheers
    No worries.

    As with most things, it is possible but just very unlikely. That said, the Trafi programme looks enticing for someone who knows for sure they'd like to attempt the physical trading route.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    Very necessary and makes life much easier. Getting into front office by working your way up through a bank is nowhere near as likely as it was in the 80s and 90s, nowadays the competition is fierce and unless you're a networking virtuoso, it would be extremely rare to get a shot.

    Apprenticeships that have sprouted are mostly in back office or accounting roles with very limited scope to transfer into the revenue generating businesses.

    Physical commods shops are somewhat different to banks and I wouldn't characterise traders there as 'city traders' - these guys rely on networks and prior operations training to do what they do. Almost no one starts out with PnL until they've at least been through the gamut of scheduling, desk analysis and some cases field work etc.. It's only after all of that where one might have the possibility of becoming a physical trader - more often, folks don't get to become one and are 'stuck' with more of a support role.

    Connections help, but they won't perform miracles.

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    Second all of this.

    An important point is a trader's biggest asset is their track record and trading history. So, if you start trading now and then build up a good PnL history, % of trades that are profitable, PnL after one month, six months, a year, etc., then you will have a much better shot, but still quite hard. Investment banking without a university degree is, unfortunately, next to impossible.
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    (Original post by londoncricket)
    Second all of this.

    An important point is a trader's biggest asset is their track record and trading history. So, if you start trading now and then build up a good PnL history, % of trades that are profitable, PnL after one month, six months, a year, etc., then you will have a much better shot, but still quite hard. Investment banking without a university degree is, unfortunately, next to impossible.
    Ok thanks. Maybe it's something I could do on the side if I dedicated some savings to it to learn and build up a record with a view to possibly going into it later
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    (Original post by dwinnbrown)
    Ok thanks. Maybe it's something I could do on the side if I dedicated some savings to it to learn and build up a record with a view to possibly going into it later
    No problem. Correct. Hedge funds and prop trading firms are most likely to look at your trading history. Investment banks need to keep their prestige and brand name, whilst also keeping profits, so they are less likely to accept a good trading history without a university to your name.
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    (Original post by dwinnbrown)
    So ever since I moved out of London, I have always had a desire to go back. I have always wanted to work in business/in the city and really think that investment banking would suit me well - I work best under pressure, am motivated by targets as well as being motivated by money (something I know is probably controversial but investment banking does seem to favour individuals who are).

    Am I being an idiot by trying to get into this industry without going to uni? I am fully aware that uni is the easiest and simplest route into these types of jobs however I have started to see that banks and wealth management companies are now beginning to offer apprenticeships in banking and some companies such as BP and Trafigura are offering specific trading apprenticeships:
    http://futuretalent.trafigura.com/en...pprenticeship/

    Anyone got any experience with these types of programmes or heard anything about them? Another thing that might make a difference (not sure if it does nowadays) is that my family are generally well connected and have worked in business in London for years. Could connections help with this career path?

    Thanks in advance.
    The simple answer to this question is without a good degree from a good university your chances are virtually nil


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    Impossible.

    Not only will you need a degree, but a degree from a top university such as LSE, Warwick, UCL, Oxford etc or the bare minimum top RG uni's such as Nottingham, Bristol, etc.

    Yeah you can go for an apprenticeship, for a technology role and be stuck at a 40k salary for eternity while performing mundane tasks aka back office
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    (Original post by glebp)

    Yeah you can go for an apprenticeship, for a technology role and be stuck at a 40k salary for eternity while performing mundane tasks aka back office
    You'd be surprised how much VPs and above make in back office bro. Not a bad result at all.

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    (Original post by Princepieman)
    You'd be surprised how much VPs and above make in back office bro. Not a bad result at all.

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    Fair enough, but most have degrees I assume. Not sure how the career progression is as an apprentice, heard they start much lower than someone with a degree as a BO employee e.g at GS
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    (Original post by glebp)
    Fair enough, but most have degrees I assume. Not sure how the career progression is as an apprentice, heard they start much lower than someone with a degree as a BO employee e.g at GS
    Yeah but they start earlier than a grad so overall they would earn a bit more in total
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    Trader or investment banker. Trader you can go solo but to work for a company (as with investment banking) you need a good degree for a good uni
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    (Original post by RibbonTide)
    Trader or investment banker. Trader you can go solo but to work for a company (as with investment banking) you need a good degree for a good uni
    Really trading is what I'm interested in so maybe the best way is to start learning and then go solo...
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    (Original post by dwinnbrown)
    Really trading is what I'm interested in so maybe the best way is to start learning and then go solo...
    If you want to do that then I suggest you ask people on ForexFactory.com or EliteTrader.com. There will be more traders over there who have actually done Trading for a company.
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    (Original post by RibbonTide)
    If you want to do that then I suggest you ask people on ForexFactory.com or EliteTrader.com. There will be more traders over there who have actually done Trading for a company.
    Ok thanks for those links will ask over there.
 
 
 
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