Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    Hi,

    This is perhaps a relatively niche question, so there may not be too many people who have experience of this, but I feel it is worth asking anyway.

    I'm a doctor currently about to start the Academic Foundation Programme, and I'm thinking about applying for Academic Clinical Fellow positions in the future. I think applications would open around September next year, which isn't actually that far away really, so I think it's worth thinking about what I should be doing over the next year.

    I went to either Oxford or Cambridge for medical school (just trying to maintain anonymity by not being too specific), and I'm doing the Academic Foundation Programme at a relatively non-competitive area in the north of England. I don't think I'd have been good enough to get an AFP in Oxbridge or London.

    I'm wondering how much "CV stuff" people successful in getting ACF offers usually have? I don't have any prizes/distinctions from medical school, so I'm not sure if that already essentially makes it impossible for me to get an ACF offer in the future?

    I've got a few poster/oral presentations, but no publications currently. I'll probably only have 1 PMID publication at the point of application (if even that), with one more in progress. I have a 2.1 intercalated degree. What sort of things do successful applicants typically do to improve their chances?

    Also, I've looked online at the ACF shortlisting stuff, but it doesn't seem to say what the weighting is of the interview score vs the shortlisting score when deciding who to give offers to. Does anyone know how that works? I guess a higher interview weighting would be better for me. On re-reading the stuff online, it actually seems to suggest to me that the final rankings are done solely on Academic Interview score, with Clinical Interview score being used as a possible tiebreaker; does that mean that the shortlisting score based on the application form plays no role following the interview? I would find that difficult to believe, but my reading of the information online does seem to suggest that.

    Thanks for any help.
    • #2
    #2

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hi,

    This is perhaps a relatively niche question, so there may not be too many people who have experience of this, but I feel it is worth asking anyway.

    I'm a doctor currently about to start the Academic Foundation Programme, and I'm thinking about applying for Academic Clinical Fellow positions in the future. I think applications would open around September next year, which isn't actually that far away really, so I think it's worth thinking about what I should be doing over the next year.

    I went to either Oxford or Cambridge for medical school (just trying to maintain anonymity by not being too specific), and I'm doing the Academic Foundation Programme at a relatively non-competitive area in the north of England. I don't think I'd have been good enough to get an AFP in Oxbridge or London.

    I'm wondering how much "CV stuff" people successful in getting ACF offers usually have? I don't have any prizes/distinctions from medical school, so I'm not sure if that already essentially makes it impossible for me to get an ACF offer in the future?

    I've got a few poster/oral presentations, but no publications currently. I'll probably only have 1 PMID publication at the point of application (if even that), with one more in progress. I have a 2.1 intercalated degree. What sort of things do successful applicants typically do to improve their chances?

    Also, I've looked online at the ACF shortlisting stuff, but it doesn't seem to say what the weighting is of the interview score vs the shortlisting score when deciding who to give offers to. Does anyone know how that works? I guess a higher interview weighting would be better for me. On re-reading the stuff online, it actually seems to suggest to me that the final rankings are done solely on Academic Interview score, with Clinical Interview score being used as a possible tiebreaker; does that mean that the shortlisting score based on the application form plays no role following the interview? I would find that difficult to believe, but my reading of the information online does seem to suggest that.

    Thanks for any help.
    Hello,

    I'm also posting anonymously to try to avoid being identifiable! I'm about to start an ACF in a small specialty outside of London/Oxford/Cambridge. I got offers from the place I will be working in and Cambridge and rejected before interview from London. I didn't apply anywhere else. I went to a PBL medical school and did an AFP outside of London/Oxford/Cambridge. I didn't have any distinctions from medical school but had some national medical student prizes. I had 4 publications and two papers submitted for publication undergoing peer review. I think I had 4 poster presentations (no oral) and a 2.1 intercalated BSc. I am afraid I'm not sure how they use scores from shortlisting/interview to calculate final scores. In terms of what you can do now, try to get as many shortlisting points as possible. Even with a year getting extra publication will be hard but you can certainly try to do more conference presentations. Ask your academic supervisor for suggestions about conferences coming up that you could present at. Try to do all you can to show commitment to the specialty and to academic medicine. If your AFP isn't in your specialty try to do a taster week, and attending courses and conferences in your area also shows commitment.Try to get a formal teaching role (e.g. PBL tutor, anatomy demonstrator) during your AFP. When you come to applying for ACFs, look at the research interests of people in the department you might want to work in. Try to find somewhere that is a good fit with your own interests and emphasize that in your application, e.g. if you have mostly done MS research find somewhere doing that and then really emphasize your previous work in that area. As well as being a good academic showing how you will work with and contribute to the current interests of the department seemed to me to be helpful. Also think about where you want to be in the future and how doing an ACF will get you there. Then you can show in your application how you will benefit from the ACF. Hope this helps to answer some of your questions.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Hello,

    I'm also posting anonymously to try to avoid being identifiable! I'm about to start an ACF in a small specialty outside of London/Oxford/Cambridge. I got offers from the place I will be working in and Cambridge and rejected before interview from London. I didn't apply anywhere else. I went to a PBL medical school and did an AFP outside of London/Oxford/Cambridge. I didn't have any distinctions from medical school but had some national medical student prizes. I had 4 publications and two papers submitted for publication undergoing peer review. I think I had 4 poster presentations (no oral) and a 2.1 intercalated BSc. I am afraid I'm not sure how they use scores from shortlisting/interview to calculate final scores. In terms of what you can do now, try to get as many shortlisting points as possible. Even with a year getting extra publication will be hard but you can certainly try to do more conference presentations. Ask your academic supervisor for suggestions about conferences coming up that you could present at. Try to do all you can to show commitment to the specialty and to academic medicine. If your AFP isn't in your specialty try to do a taster week, and attending courses and conferences in your area also shows commitment.Try to get a formal teaching role (e.g. PBL tutor, anatomy demonstrator) during your AFP. When you come to applying for ACFs, look at the research interests of people in the department you might want to work in. Try to find somewhere that is a good fit with your own interests and emphasize that in your application, e.g. if you have mostly done MS research find somewhere doing that and then really emphasize your previous work in that area. As well as being a good academic showing how you will work with and contribute to the current interests of the department seemed to me to be helpful. Also think about where you want to be in the future and how doing an ACF will get you there. Then you can show in your application how you will benefit from the ACF. Hope this helps to answer some of your questions.
    Thank-you very much for your reply.

    I might just bombard you with a few more questions, if you can be bothered answering any more... :p:

    Did you get most of those publications from medical school then? I feel I've missed the boat on that somewhat lol. Surprisingly very few people in my yeargroup at Oxbridge got much published. I think even the top academic performers with AFP offers typically only had one publication max.

    Also, in ACF applications, do posters only count if you were the one physically presenting it? Eg, I have presented posters personally, which I imagine would definitely count. However, on other posters, my name was on them as a co-author, but I didn't attend the conference and someone else "presented" it. Do those count or not?

    And finally, I'm just starting my AF1 year now (which is identical to the normal F1 year, since the academic component is in Year 2); would it be normal for me to contact my project supervisor now, and ask to meet up to discuss what academic stuff I could be doing over the next year, despite my official project with him not starting until this time next year? I'm at a DGH this year, then in my F2 year I start on my academic rotation, then have 2 further clinical rotations at the tertiary centre affiliated with the university.

    Thanks for any additional help.
    • #2
    #2

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Thank-you very much for your reply.

    I might just bombard you with a few more questions, if you can be bothered answering any more... :p:

    Did you get most of those publications from medical school then? I feel I've missed the boat on that somewhat lol. Surprisingly very few people in my yeargroup at Oxbridge got much published. I think even the top academic performers with AFP offers typically only had one publication max.

    Also, in ACF applications, do posters only count if you were the one physically presenting it? Eg, I have presented posters personally, which I imagine would definitely count. However, on other posters, my name was on them as a co-author, but I didn't attend the conference and someone else "presented" it. Do those count or not?

    And finally, I'm just starting my AF1 year now (which is identical to the normal F1 year, since the academic component is in Year 2); would it be normal for me to contact my project supervisor now, and ask to meet up to discuss what academic stuff I could be doing over the next year, despite my official project with him not starting until this time next year? I'm at a DGH this year, then in my F2 year I start on my academic rotation, then have 2 further clinical rotations at the tertiary centre affiliated with the university.

    Thanks for any additional help.
    Yeah I got most of those publications (3) in medical school (started working on them summer of third year, got published in 6th year so took time!) and the 4th I started working on in final year and it was published during F1. I am afraid I'm not sure about posters that you didn't present, hopefully someone else here knows and will be able to answer your question. I would definitely recommend contacting your academic supervisor now. If you plan your project in your F1 year you can really make the most of your academic block. It's also great to start building a good working relationship with your supervisor earlier on so you can make the most of their advice.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by Anonymous)
    Also, in ACF applications, do posters only count if you were the one physically presenting it? Eg, I have presented posters personally, which I imagine would definitely count. However, on other posters, my name was on them as a co-author, but I didn't attend the conference and someone else "presented" it. Do those count or not?
    I've asked this question of senior colleagues before, not specifically in the guise of ACF applications but more just generally "does this count?" The answer was that it does count, the peer-review process happens prior to the conference (i.e. the achievement is having it accepted). If it's a moderated poster session though, then it's actually added benefit to actually present it (because somebody is actually there for you to present to rather than you standing near your poster awkwardly during coffee breaks and saying you "presented" it) and in that case it would be a bit disingenuous for you to say you presented it (because you didn't).

    You can put them on your CV under 'abstracts' (rather than 'presentations'). In the same way, abstracts accepted to conferences that then end up don't actually happen still "count" (ish) and you might as well put them on your CV.
    • #1
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by Beska)
    I've asked this question of senior colleagues before, not specifically in the guise of ACF applications but more just generally "does this count?" The answer was that it does count, the peer-review process happens prior to the conference (i.e. the achievement is having it accepted). If it's a moderated poster session though, then it's actually added benefit to actually present it (because somebody is actually there for you to present to rather than you standing near your poster awkwardly during coffee breaks and saying you "presented" it) and in that case it would be a bit disingenuous for you to say you presented it (because you didn't).

    You can put them on your CV under 'abstracts' (rather than 'presentations'). In the same way, abstracts accepted to conferences that then end up don't actually happen still "count" (ish) and you might as well put them on your CV.
    Thanks for the reply.

    Yeah I guess the ambiguity is when it talks about "presenting a poster". To be honest, I'd have thought that being first author and standing beside it at coffee breaks counted as "presenting" it, but I can see why some people could disagree with that. I haven't been to that many conferences, but I thought that most posters got "marked" for prizes, even if it wasn't a moderated poster session? So in theory there are assessors that can ask you stuff if you happen to be beside your poster as they walk by.

    I would certainly have put such posters down as abstracts on my CV as you suggest. I guess the difficulty is that application forms seem to say things like "Posters you have presented", which I guess would suggest that you actually had to be at the conference.

    It can be confusing though. Eg, here's the ST3 application form (not ACF, just using this as an example). http://www.st3recruitment.org.uk/rec...cation-scoring

    If you look under "Presentations", the terminology it uses is "shown a poster". However, reading the explanation of the scores, it says that you can basically claim "one point fewer" for each achievement if you contributed to the poster but didn't personally show it. Eg: "If you have contributed to a poster presented nationally or internationally, but were not first author, and have not used another drop-down option to claim this achievement, you may use this option."
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What's your favourite Christmas sweets?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.