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TSR Med Students' Society Part VI

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Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
Surely being a med student/doctor/HCP means we have a deeper understanding of the issues raised in this case? This case is going to have implications we'll be dealing with one day. The hospital managers haven't faced criminal disciplinary action for failing to run a safe hospital but they get to hide behind their desks and point their fingers at front-line staff.

I don't think we're really biased though. Go read the Daily Mail comments. That's racisim.


Corrected that for you. And I'm in complete (and sad) agreement.
Original post by ForestCat
Corrected that for you. And I'm in complete (and sad) agreement.


Thanks. Didn't really want to say it.
Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
Thanks. Didn't really want to say it.


We were all thinking it. To be honest, we should all say it a lot more.
Original post by ForestCat
We were all thinking it. To be honest, we should all say it a lot more.


I can understand why some people don't want to mention it. It does agitate some people, especially the trolls who come out of their holes to argue and tell you you're wrong and that if you don't like it "go back to your own country". :facepalm:
F1 shadowing period prior to work is minimum 4 working days apparently .. With the new contract that would include the weekend too right?
Original post by Anonymous
F1 shadowing period prior to work is minimum 4 working days apparently .. With the new contract that would include the weekend too right?


I think that will vary depending on trust, but I would imagine it would just be weekdays. I suppose it will also depend on what the fy1 you're taking over from is doing.
Original post by Anonymous
Important to bear in mind that we are all incredibly biased with respect to Bawa-Garba given we are doctors.

Rather uneasy about reading people almost trying to "blame the mum" on this page.

Important to remember people posting in this thread may well feel differently had it been their child that had died.


So far it's been made out as a lazy, thick doctor who didn't give a hoot about her patient and left him to die because he had downs. The enalapril is where that falls apart, because she'd done the correct thing and not prescribed it.
Original post by Anonymous
Important to bear in mind that we are all incredibly biased with respect to Bawa-Garba given we are doctors.

Rather uneasy about reading people almost trying to "blame the mum" on this page.

Important to remember people posting in this thread may well feel differently had it been their child that had died.


I think actually people view parents too kindly in these situations, parents despite partial culpability here it seems, getting an absolute pass with politicians fawning over them.

I give sympathy for parents but too often they come across as totally blameless and especially to twist this round and launch an attack on a specific doctor is so wrong
Original post by paniking_and_not_revising
Surely being a med student/doctor/HCP means we have a deeper understanding of the issues raised in this case? This case is going to have implications we'll be dealing with one day. The hospital managers haven't faced criminal disciplinary action for failing to run a safe hospital but they get to hide behind their desks and point their fingers at front-line staff.

I don't think we're really biased though. Go read the Daily Mail comments. That's bias.


Try to pretend it was a white doctor though when reading the comments
Not much gets my blood pressure rising more than the comments section of the Daily Mail.

Sadly, in recent years, my grandmother has become a walking talking DM column. There's no reasoning with her on certain topics (trust me, I've tried).

However, reassuringly, there does seem to be a fair amount of support for Dr Bawa Garba online, from the non-medic community. There are a fair few petitions floating around too (they won't get anywhere, but it's nice to see).
Original post by That Bearded Man
I think actually people view parents too kindly in these situations, parents despite partial culpability here it seems, getting an absolute pass with politicians fawning over them.


I once had the paeds nurses try to get me to raise safeguarding issues over a parent who gave a (prescribed, harmless) medication to their child on the ward. They were crazy and we didn't of course, but perhaps if those nurses had been on shift that day the shoe would have been on the other foot and this whole story would have been very different!
Original post by Anonymous
I agree with that.

I just think it's important that we remember that we are not unbiased observers.


Of course we are biased. How can we not? It's absolutely terrifying and outrageous that when the system fails you (and it is failing a lot more often as of late) and you make an honest mistake, you get scapegoated despite having your patient's best interests at heart.

It's crazy how quickly your career that you've invested 7+ years in can just disappear.
Original post by Anonymous
I once had the paeds nurses try to get me to raise safeguarding issues over a parent who gave a (prescribed, harmless) medication to their child on the ward. They were crazy and we didn't of course, but perhaps if those nurses had been on shift that day the shoe would have been on the other foot and this whole story would have been very different!


Its hard. Parents on paeds wards are often highly involved in their child's care and will know the drug regimes inside and out. But that doesn't always mean they know what drugs are safe/unsafe during concurrent illness. Parents of normally well children will normally leave it all to medics/nurses but chronically ill children's parents probably need very careful communication about medicines stopping/starting.

I think it mainly shows that there were so many many problems that day, and for it still all to be blamed on two people is ridiculous.
Original post by ForestCat
I think that will vary depending on trust, but I would imagine it would just be weekdays. I suppose it will also depend on what the fy1 you're taking over from is doing.


Thanks, makes sense
Original post by Anonymous
I once had the paeds nurses try to get me to raise safeguarding issues over a parent who gave a (prescribed, harmless) medication to their child on the ward. They were crazy and we didn't of course, but perhaps if those nurses had been on shift that day the shoe would have been on the other foot and this whole story would have been very different!


And then perhaps the parents would be going after the staff for depriving them of their right to see their kid.

"Cruel staff block parents access as child dies"
Also- should point out the difference in articles and responses when Boots did something similar (arguably, worse, since staffing wasn't an issue) - but the patient realised.

Doubt any of their staff (correctly) will lose their job

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-42735588
Original post by That Bearded Man
Also- should point out the difference in articles and responses when Boots did something similar (arguably, worse, since staffing wasn't an issue) - but the patient realised.

Doubt any of their staff (correctly) will lose their job

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-42735588


And also haven't two people signed to say they've checked that?
Parents are given a massive amount of legal power over their children (e.g. the ability to give potentially lethal medications...)

That should come with taking a degree of responsibility for their decisions.
Anyone seen this piece in the NY Times? An account by an American in Germany who didn't get vicodin (co-codamol) post-op, but rather got ibuprofen.

Wonder where we land on the opioids scale. Feel like most would probably get some morphine or co-codamol?
Original post by hslakaal
Anyone seen this piece in the NY Times? An account by an American in Germany who didn't get vicodin (co-codamol) post-op, but rather got ibuprofen.

Wonder where we land on the opioids scale. Feel like most would probably get some morphine or co-codamol?


As a O&G SHO, where I work we tend to just give paracetamol and ibuprofen post op. Occasionally co-codamol but very rarely and even less so as a TTO.

Even women post-LSCS mostly just go home on paracetamol and ibuprofen.

Most women go home within 24-36 hours :dontknow:

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