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    May represents old school, traditionalist, vaguely authoritarian, establishment conservatism. I don't believe this is what people want or need. I think there is a kind of political revolution going on which is also happening in the US. Over there, Trump has beaten rivals such as Ted Cruz and Rubio. Those two latter candidates represented a more American brand of what May represents. People feel the appeal for Trump (whether they're right or wrong is immaterial in this instance) is that he is somehow anti-establishment, and that ultimately he is pretty much not interested in social issues. He pretends to be sometimes, vaguely pandering to the old-school republican voters, but you can tell he doesn't really care, which is why his positions waver on these matters. And this suits most Trump supporters, because they're not too interested either. The only socially conservative position he is quite adamant about are his views on immigration, which is also what many people are concerned about. Aside from this issue, most of these people pretty much seem like classical, pragmatic liberals which are sick of an increasingly Orwellian establishment and the globalism which only appears to serve its interests. I mean just look at Trump's views on drugs. Most republicans, bar the libertarian outliers, have a strong moral stance against drugs. Trump's views on them are very liberal, advocating medical marijuana to be legalized, for full legalization to be decided on a state by state basis, and for legalization of all drugs to be studied.

    The point I'm making is that Trump isn't part of that old school, traditionalist conservatism. He is part of something new; a kind of non-establisment politics which values liberty and pragmatism, but feels that allowing in certain immigrant groups could endanger these values. I think this was the same sentiment behind the majority of Brexit votes; to shake up the establishment and to try and protect our country from the apparent illiberalism of some cultures. I think this is also the appeal of many of the far-right parties on Europe. I don't think half of Austrians have suddenly become far-right. I think many of them are probably fairly liberal in most ways, but are very afraid by mass, rapid immigration that they feel endangers their way of life. They may also feel, perhaps entirely misguidedly, that voting for a far-right party will shake the establishment up.

    But May is not the answer to lead the country, she is not what most Brexit voters want. She represents an old form of conservative politics which most people aren't interested in anymore. She is also very much establisment, which flies in the face of the anti-establishment sentiment behind Brexit.
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    What alternatives are there though? I'd give a shot at Tim Farron of the Liberals for being more of a grounded centre party but they're basically decimated. Labour has been led down the alley by stupid far lefties and Corbyn who want it all without figuring a way to pay for all of it outside of tax hikes that won't cover it all. UKIP.......I won't even speak of them. Greens....ignorable. The choices are just bad.
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    (Original post by marco14196)
    What alternatives are there though? I'd give a shot at Tim Farron of the Liberals for being more of a grounded centre party but they're basically decimated. Labour has been led down the alley by stupid far lefties and Corbyn who want it all without figuring a way to pay for all of it outside of tax hikes that won't cover it all. UKIP.......I won't even speak of them. Greens....ignorable. The choices are just bad.
    The problem is that, with perhaps the exception of Corbyn's Labour party, who represents the increasingly far left ideals of a large, generally young section of the left, the political establishment hasn't caught up with the political atmosphere outside of it. The game has changed a lot everywhere but within the government itself.
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    Well, Leadsom is not the answer either, she has barely any experience, no one knew who she was before the referendum because she hasn't done anything. She would a good a candidate 5 to 10 years down the line, but now may is the only candidate.
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    (Original post by epic within)
    Well, Leadsom is not the answer either, she has barely any experience, no one knew who she was before the referendum because she hasn't done anything. She would a good a candidate 5 to 10 years down the line, but now may is the only candidate.
    Yes, Leadsom seems pretty clueless.
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    Neither option is appealing. Brexit has left a devastating mess that the country won't recover from easily (or ever). I'd not particularly fond of either May or Leadsom, I wouldn't pick either to be PM if I had 50 choices but we don't. Its between the two of them and given Leadsom's views against gay marriage and her trying to use the fact she is a mother to gloss over her inexperience (and just the whole general unpleasantness of that scheme and her lies over it), I hope May wins. *
    *
    Its not a particularly happy choice, the country is in a very dark unpleasant place and quite frankly whoever wins it will be a poor result but Leadsom would be the poorer result of the two. *
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    (Original post by the bear)
    but she has a steak in the future *...she has reproduced
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    woopy doo
    Women in British politics have a tendency to be like rather frigid head mistress who believe they're always right, and who value principles over facts and reality. I don't know if this is a uniquely British thing, because Hillary Clinton definitely feels like a politician and little else. Then again, that just means that it feels as though she doesn't truly value anything.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    Women in British politics have a tendency to be like rather frigid head mistress who believe they're always right, and who value pronciples over facts and reality. I don't know if this is a uniquely British thing, because Hillary Clinton definitely feels like a politician and little else.
    yes one could imagine Mrs M giving one a stern dressing down for leaving one's shoelaces undone. **
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    (Original post by elitepower)
    Neither option is appealing. Brexit has left a devastating mess that the country won't recover from easily (or ever). I'd not particularly fond of either May or Leadsom, I wouldn't pick either to be PM if I had 50 choices but we don't. Its between the two of them and given Leadsom's views against gay marriage and her trying to use the fact she is a mother to gloss over her inexperience (and just the whole general unpleasantness of that scheme and her lies over it), I hope May wins. *
    *
    Its not a particularly happy choice, the country is in a very dark unpleasant place and quite frankly whoever wins it will be a poor result but Leadsom would be the poorer result of the two. *

    So much hysterical hyperbole.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    So much hysterical hyperbole.
    If you are just going to insult what I write, don't bother replying to me.*
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    You don't want Theresa May. Lots of people don't. But she is the favourite. Lot of people don't want Brexit. This is a *****y situation where lots of people don't get what they want. A ton of negative consequences are heading this way - you can dismiss that if you want but its fact.
    *
    Who do you want then, Mr. So much better than me? *
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    (Original post by elitepower)
    If you are just going to insult what I write, don't bother replying to me.*
    *
    You don't want Theresa May. Lots of people don't. But she is the favourite. Lot of people don't want Brexit. This is a *****y situation where lots of people don't get what they want. A ton of negative consequences are heading this way - you can dismiss that if you want but its fact.
    *
    Who do you want then, Mr. So much better than me? *
    A government that focuses on pragmatic, fairly classical liberalism that is not swayed by unelected eurocrats, turns away from the increasingly Orwellian route that many European countries (such as our own) are going down (where, for example, things like various mass rapes are brushed under the rug by the authorities because they don't fit a certain political narrative, and people can be imprisoned for expressing an opinion on Twitter) and sympathizes with people's worries about allowing in and indulging Islamic, ultra-conservative demographics which are completely opposed to the liberal values which most if us hold dear.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    A government that focuses on pragmatic, fairly classical liberalism that is not swayed by unelected eurocrats, turns away from the increasingly Orwellian route that many European countries (such as our own) are going down (where, for example, things like various mass rapes are brushed under the rug by the authorities because they don't fit a certain political narrative, and people can be imprisoned for expressing an opinion on Twitter) and sympathizes with people's worries about allowing in and indulging Islamic, ultra-conservative demographics which are completely opposed to the liberal values which most if us hold dear.
    So basically you want UKIP?*
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    The core Leave campaigners have abandoned the sinking ship the UK has now become. Its a choice between May and Leadsom for the next three years. After that, you can have your say in the general election. *
    **
    But since we have dismiss the concerns of 16 million people as "get over it" as you Leave voters like to say, I wouldn't hold your breath about getting the government you want. *
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    (Original post by elitepower)
    So basically you want UKIP?*
    *
    The core Leave campaigners have abandoned the sinking ship the UK has now become. Its a choice between May and Leadsom for the next three years. After that, you can have your say in the general election. *
    **
    But since we have dismiss the concerns of 16 million people as "get over it" as you Leave voters like to say, I wouldn't hold your breath about getting the government you want. *
    As UKIP are not at all interested in liberalism, and that is my prime focus, obviously not. I support decriminalizing drugs; opening drug rehabilitation centres; getting rid of the legal benefits of marriage entirely (so no one is discriminated against); freedom of speech; secularism; publicly funded healthcare, schools, and university; a welfare system... So no, not much like UKIP. Do you struggle to comprehend political thinking that doesn't neatly fit into the little pigeonholes like the one you like to snuggle yourself into? You see, if one comes to one's own conclusions, one won't harbour ridiculous examples of cognitive dissonance that only come to exist as conventions. I don't, for example, like Islam much, nor do I particularly favour a large group of its followers entering the country, because they're very often opposed to ideals which I think are very important. You though, have reached such a depth of indoctrination that you've been made to believe that opposing this particular brand of ultra-conservatism makes one an ultra-conservative oneself, simply because it is an brand which is foreign to our own culture.

    I'm sure you wouldn't like the area in which you live to become overrun by traditionalist Christian right-wingers. Nor would I. But I have the consistency of reason to also very much dislike the idea of where I live being dominated by ultra-conservative, gay hating, antisemitic Muslims.
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    In fairness she seems to come across as the lesser of two evils.. Albeit she should have to call a GE if she wins.
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    As UKIP are not at all interested in liberalism, and that is my prime focus, obviously not. I support decriminalizing drugs; opening drug rehabilitation centres; getting rid of the legal benefits of marriage entirely (so no one is discriminated against); freedom of speech; secularism; publicly funded healthcare, schools, and university; a welfare system... So no, not much like UKIP. Do you struggle to comprehend political thinking that doesn't neatly fit into the little pigeonholes like the one you like to snuggle yourself into? You see, if one comes to one's own conclusions, one won't harbour ridiculous examples of cognitive dissonance that only come to exist as conventions. I don't, for example, like Islam much, nor do I particularly favour a large group of its followers entering the country, because they're very often opposed to ideals which I think are very important. You though, have reached such a depth of indoctrination that you've been made to believe that opposing this particular brand of ultra-conservatism makes one an ultra-conservative oneself, simply because it is an brand which is foreign to our own culture.

    I'm sure you wouldn't like the area in which you live to become overrun by traditionalist Christian right-wingers. Nor would I. But I have the consistency of reason to also very much dislike the idea of where I live being dominated by ultra-conservative, gay hating, antisemitic Muslims.
    Since your earlier replies focused on opposing unelected eurocrats, a dislike for the establishment, how you called Therese May as not the PM we need & not what Brexiters want and your main concern appears to be immigration - your views seemed to mainly aline with the UKIP way of thinking.*
    *
    Its also be lovely if you could try and be less condescending, judgemental and arrogant. Stop saying that I struggle or I'm indoctrinated as you don't know a thing about me. It doesn't do anything to make people agree with you, it just makes you seem like a terrible person using eloquent phrasing to insult people and feel superior. Its your level of toxicity that will*the damage this referendum has done stick around for a long time. * **
    *
    I'm sorry - I must have missed the part where someone was calling for the country to be, as you say, dominated by ultra conservative, gay hating antisemitic muslims. Can you link me to that please?*

    I don't get what you want from this conversation or thread. The conservative leader contest is between May or Leadsom. If you are a member and don't like May, vote for Leadsom if you think she is better. If you are not a member, the outcome is up to the conservative membership. I don't see the perfect leader for you. There's a lot of the country feeling unrepresented by the government and parliament. We all have hopes for the PM and government but the binary choice we face now is May or Leadsom for the next three years. That choice might not represent you but Brexit does not represent many.*
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    (Original post by Napp)
    In fairness she seems to come across as the lesser of two evils.. Albeit she should have to call a GE if she wins.
    I think she'd win anyway if a GE was called
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    (Original post by elitepower)
    Since your earlier replies focused on opposing unelected eurocrats, a dislike for the establishment, how you called Therese May as not the PM we need & not what Brexiters want and your main concern appears to be immigration - your views seemed to mainly aline with the UKIP way of thinking.*
    *
    Its also be lovely if you could try and be less condescending, judgemental and arrogant. Stop saying that I struggle or I'm indoctrinated as you don't know a thing about me. It doesn't do anything to make people agree with you, it just makes you seem like a terrible person using eloquent phrasing to insult people and feel superior. Its your level of toxicity that will*the damage this referendum has done stick around for a long time. * **
    *
    I'm sorry - I must have missed the part where someone was calling for the country to be, as you say, dominated by ultra conservative, gay hating antisemitic muslims. Can you link me to that please?*

    I don't get what you want from this conversation or thread. The conservative leader contest is between May or Leadsom. If you are a member and don't like May, vote for Leadsom if you think she is better. If you are not a member, the outcome is up to the conservative membership. I don't see the perfect leader for you. There's a lot of the country feeling unrepresented by the government and parliament. We all have hopes for the PM and government but the binary choice we face now is May or Leadsom for the next three years. That choice might not represent you but Brexit does not represent many.*
    I'm sorry for acting like a terrible person but I really don't like to be automatically pigeonholed as something I'm absolutely not and it frustrates me that so many people seem to be wilfully blind to the fairly obvious reasonability of a liberal cause against Islam.

    And I understand there aren't many options, but the OP is just an observation.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    In fairness she seems to come across as the lesser of two evils.. Albeit she should have to call a GE if she wins.
    If a GE was called, the Tories would increase their majority and Labour would be decimated by UKIP in the north.

    There's no point in calling one when the Government has no opposition.
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    Theresa May is not the PM we need, Andrea Leadsom even less. We are not going to get any other kind of government until 2020 at the earliest, so Theresa May is the best of a bad choice.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    If a GE was called, the Tories would increase their majority and Labour would be decimated by UKIP in the north.

    There's no point in calling one when the Government has no opposition.
    Still beats having a PM no body chose...
 
 
 
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