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We aren't going to stop free movement, so what exactly did Brexiters vote for? watch

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    If we stop free movement, we aren't allowed to stay in the single market, and Theresa May won't let us leave the single market as it will just ruin the economy. So what exactly have Brexiters voted for?
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    Oh, I'm sure the EU can be made to change their tune, the only question is whether or not May has the guts. Can you imagine Merkel telling Volkswagen that they can't sell cars to the UK any-more? They'd be breaking her door down. They need us a lot more than we need them, and especially once France votes out next year they're going to be panicking, having lost about 2/5 of the total currency controlled in the EU.

    Anyway, free movement wasn't what I supported leave for, it's just that I don't happen to agree with the notion that we can't stop free movement. It would be easy, a prime minister with the guts could always just say that they had intel on terrorism and put up border controls like France did. Let the EU put that in its pipe and smoke it.

    The main reasons I supported leave were sovereignty, the freedom to negotiate our own trade deals, freedom from quotas in the farming industries and generally to circumvent further European harmonisation.
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    Hopefully an end to EU protectionism and a more outward looking relationship with the rest of the world.Also a real shake up of the EU that should force it to work more along the lines of consensus and the countries involved rather than the institutions goals.We also avoid the next economic catastrophe(Italy) as well as the others that still persist and will continue to so long as the EU refuses to accept the failure of the euro especially due to the extreme differences between north, east and south Europe.
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    "to take back our laws", so they said
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    Oh, I'm sure the EU can be made to change their tune, the only question is whether or not May has the guts. Can you imagine Merkel telling Volkswagen that they can't sell cars to the UK any-more? They'd be breaking her door down. They need us a lot more than we need them, and especially once France votes out next year they're going to be panicking, having lost about 2/5 of the total currency controlled in the EU.
    Why would VW not be able to sell their cars here any more? We'd just have to pay more for them. The EU really don't need us more than we need them. The only thing they probably really care about us for is North Sea oil.
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    Even if we CUT EU migration it will be better than 'COME HERE EVERYONE. COME AND GET YOUR BREAKFAST'
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    Oh, I'm sure the EU can be made to change their tune, the only question is whether or not May has the guts. Can you imagine Merkel telling Volkswagen that they can't sell cars to the UK any-more? They'd be breaking her door down. They need us a lot more than we need them, and especially once France votes out next year they're going to be panicking, having lost about 2/5 of the total currency controlled in the EU.

    Anyway, free movement wasn't what I supported leave for, it's just that I don't happen to agree with the notion that we can't stop free movement. It would be easy, a prime minister with the guts could always just say that they had intel on terrorism and put up border controls like France did. Let the EU put that in its pipe and smoke it.

    The main reasons I supported leave were sovereignty, the freedom to negotiate our own trade deals, freedom from quotas in the farming industries and generally to circumvent further European harmonisation.

    Us not being given a favourable trade doesn't mean we can't trade with the EU, it means we'll have to pay more. And given the trade figures show we're more reliant on them than they are on us, why would they let us have our cake and eat it?
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Why would VW not be able to sell their cars here any more? We'd just have to pay more for them. The EU really don't need us more than we need them. The only thing they probably really care about us for is North Sea oil.
    Why would we pay more for them? Instead of buying VW's newly inflated cars, we'd buy Mr Kim Yung Chong's cars for half the price, and the Chinese would be more than happy about it. Result: we really don't need them.

    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Us not being given a favourable trade doesn't mean we can't trade with the EU, it means we'll have to pay more. And given the trade figures show we're more reliant on them than they are on us, why would they let us have our cake and eat it?
    How do they show that we're more reliant on them? We import more than we export, so they are of little net monetary importance to us. For what we lose, we can make up with new negotiations elsewhere, unhindered by the EU. It's completely in their interests to give us the cake because they are a weakening power insisting on upsetting Putin, and with us getting into bed trading with China they could quickly find themselves in an unfavourable position as the underdogs.
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    Why would we pay more for them? Instead of buying VW's newly inflated cars, we'd buy Mr Kim Yung Chong's cars for half the price, and the Chinese would be more than happy about it. Result: we really don't need them.
    I didn't say we did need them, but they don't really need us either. And we'd still buy VW's because people like them as a status symbol. Not many people would want a cheap Chinese knockoff parked in their drive (of course I understand some won't care, that's why I said not many, before you start trying to be awkward).

    They will likely cost more than they currently do due to extra import costs that aren't currently there.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    I didn't say we did need them, but they don't really need us either. And we'd still buy VW's because people like them as a status symbol. Not many people would want a cheap Chinese knockoff parked in their drive (of course I understand some won't care, that's why I said not many, before you start trying to be awkward).

    They will likely cost more than they currently do due to extra import costs that aren't currently there.
    Vw's aren't really the first thing many people think of as a status symbol. (Besides which, the nature of status symbols is that they tend to be expensive, and thus make up a negligible portion of the market.)
    Fords are made in Turkey, Peugeot in Japan, Honda in the UK (for our market)... I can go on. My point is, if EU made cars become more expensive, then other cars can and will fill that void, especially as they become cheaper. Lots of the large brands are partly or wholly manufactured in China/Japan, and fewer in the European Union. We would not be the ones losing out.

    Sorry if I'm being a bit awkward, I can seem that way sometimes when I'm right.
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    Why would we pay more for them? Instead of buying VW's newly inflated cars, we'd buy Mr Kim Yung Chong's cars for half the price, and the Chinese would be more than happy about it. Result: we really don't need them.


    How do they show that we're more reliant on them? We import more than we export, so they are of little net monetary importance to us. For what we lose, we can make up with new negotiations elsewhere, unhindered by the EU. It's completely in their interests to give us the cake because they are a weakening power insisting on upsetting Putin, and with us getting into bed trading with China they could quickly find themselves in an unfavourable position as the underdogs.

    We don't export much (which is why people talking about how a weak pound is good for exports is ridiculous) so a trade deal with the U.K. isn't that necessary for them, the increased import costs won't be that significant (not to mention that crashing our currency also makes it cheaper for them). We import far more from them, so we need a good trade deal to keep those import costs low. We need the trade deal more than they do.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    We don't export much (which is why people talking about how a weak pound is good for exports is ridiculous) so a trade deal with the U.K. isn't that necessary for them, the increased import costs won't be that significant (not to mention that crashing our currency also makes it cheaper for them). We import far more from them, so we need a good trade deal to keep those import costs low. We need the trade deal more than they do.
    We are the EU's greatest market. A trade deal is essential for them. A failing institution looking at France and more also leaving cannot afford to be bull-headed with us. Most of our trade is done outside the EU now, and they are becoming less and less important. We can afford for them to become significantly less important because we will have unrestricted trade deals outside of the EU, as NZ and AUS are racing to have with us. We can afford some higher tariffs in the midst of this.
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    (Original post by dragonzrmetal)
    Vw's aren't really the first thing many people think of as a status symbol. (Besides which, the nature of status symbols is that they tend to be expensive, and thus make up a negligible portion of the market.)
    Fords are made in Turkey, Peugeot in Japan, Honda in the UK (for our market)... I can go on. My point is, if EU made cars become more expensive, then other cars can and will fill that void, especially as they become cheaper. Lots of the large brands are partly or wholly manufactured in China/Japan, and fewer in the European Union. We would not be the ones losing out.

    Sorry if I'm being a bit awkward, I can seem that way sometimes when I'm right.
    No, they're not the first thing many people think of, but I'd be more likely to think my neighbour is doing well for themselves if they have a VW parked out front than a kia.

    Yes, for the lower end car market we could go to other places. I really don't see what that has to do much with your earlier point though. The EU wouldn't be loosing out much either.

    The last sentence is such a joke I'm not even going to rise to it.
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    (Original post by urbanlocations)
    Even if we CUT EU migration it will be better than 'COME HERE EVERYONE. COME AND GET YOUR BREAKFAST'
    Except it really wouldn't, because EU immigrants make a net contribution of 30% while British people take more than they bring in. EU immigrants are the only thing supporting our economy.
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    (Original post by orton6)
    If we stop free movement, we aren't allowed to stay in the single market, and Theresa May won't let us leave the single market as it will just ruin the economy. So what exactly have Brexiters voted for?
    I voted primarily to stop institutional convergence with the EU. I don't regard EU immigration as very harmful, but do regard the future EU superstate as very harmful.
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    Brexiters voted to 'leave' the European Union.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Except it really wouldn't, because EU immigrants make a net contribution of 30% while British people take more than they bring in. EU immigrants are the only thing supporting our economy.
    You cannot say that EU immigrants are supporting the economy. A majority of them are, however with an Australian style point system I am unsure how it can possibly go wrong.

    An india Doctor yes come in Sir.

    Someone from a country with no experience no job...no qualifications? with a system like Australia it would be 'Sorry no thanks sir, come back when you have a profession'
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    I didn't say we did need them, but they don't really need us either. And we'd still buy VW's because people like them as a status symbol. Not many people would want a cheap Chinese knockoff parked in their drive (of course I understand some won't care, that's why I said not many, before you start trying to be awkward).

    They will likely cost more than they currently do due to extra import costs that aren't currently there.
    A lot of cars are made in the UK.

    Many of these are made for EU export, and the reduced desirability of the UK as a location for plants exporting to the EU has been flagged as a downside of Brexit.

    What has not been so much flagged is that these plants will continue to exist and cannot be relocated at any reasonable cost, and so the cost of cars these produce in the UK would drop.
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    (Original post by urbanlocations)
    You cannot say that EU immigrants are supporting the economy. A majority of them are, however with an Australian style point system I am unsure how it can possibly go wrong.

    An india Doctor yes come in Sir.

    Someone from a country with no experience no job...no qualifications? with a system like Australia it would be 'Sorry no thanks sir, come back when you have a profession'
    But we could already have an Australian style points system for non-EU immigration, and we don't. The immigration that we have full control over is worse for us than the immigration than we have no control over (non-EU immigrants make a contribution of about 1%), so why do you think we'd somehow do a better job of controlling EU immigration? Why didn't we start controlling the immigration that's actually a problem first?

    What's more likely is that lots of the highly skilled EU immigrants won't want to come here anymore - they can go anywhere in the world, and anywhere in Europe without even needing a visa or a passport, so why would they go through all this points system *******s to get here? A lot of British people severely overestimate how important we are.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Except it really wouldn't, because EU immigrants make a net contribution of 30% while British people take more than they bring in. EU immigrants are the only thing supporting our economy.
    This ****ing myth (pp.91-93) won't die no matter how many times it is debunked.
 
 
 
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