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Brexit: Letting Poland down again . First 1945 then 2016 Watch

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    Can a Brexit voter look a Pole in the eye and not feel ashamed?
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Can a Brexit voter look a Pole in the eye and not feel ashamed?
    Don't you mean 1939? Also we did act then and went into our biggest war to try and protect them, so of course we can look them in the eye. You are just an ignorant troll.
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    (Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
    Don't you mean 1939? Also we did act then and went into our biggest war to try and protect them, so of course we can look them in the eye. You are just an ignorant troll.
    No not 1939. I said 1945 (left to the Russians)....

    You change the date,
    then call me ignorant...
    Then a troll...

    Don't tell me you're BREXIT:

    Here is your history lesson Sebastian..
    If you think you might be wrong
    it would be nice to get an apology once in a while.

    It would show good will

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference
    and
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

    From the wiki links:

    Churchill defended his actions at Yalta in a three-day Parliament army debate starting on February 27, which ended in a vote of confidence. During the debate many MPs openly criticised Churchill and passionately voiced loyalty to Britain's Polish allies and expressed deep reservations about Yalta.[16] Moreover, 25 of these MPs risked their careers to draft an amendment protesting against Britain's tacit acceptance of Poland's domination by the Soviet Union. These members included: Arthur Greenwood; Sir Archibald Southby, 1st Baronet; Sir Alec Douglas-Home; James Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby, 3rd Earl of Ancaster and Victor Raikes.[16] After the failure of the amendment,Henry Strauss, 1st Baron Conesford, the Member of Parliament for Norwich, resigned his seat in protest at the British treatment of Poland.[16]When the Second World War ended, a Communist government was installed in Poland. Many Poles felt betrayed by their wartime allies. Many Polish soldiers refused to return to Poland, because of the Soviet repressions of Polish citizens (1939–1946), the Trial of the Sixteen and other executions of pro-Western Poles, particularly the former members of the AK (Armia Krajowa). The result was the Polish Resettlement Act 1947, Britain's first mass immigration law.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    No not 1939. I said 1945 (left to the Russians)....

    You change the date,
    then call me ignorant...
    Then a troll...

    Don't tell me you're BREXIT:

    Here is your history lesson Sebastian..
    If you think you might be wrong
    it would be nice to get an apology once in a while.

    It would show good will

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference
    and
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

    From the wiki links:

    Churchill defended his actions at Yalta in a three-day Parliament army debate starting on February 27, which ended in a vote of confidence. During the debate many MPs openly criticised Churchill and passionately voiced loyalty to Britain's Polish allies and expressed deep reservations about Yalta.[16] Moreover, 25 of these MPs risked their careers to draft an amendment protesting against Britain's tacit acceptance of Poland's domination by the Soviet Union. These members included: Arthur Greenwood; Sir Archibald Southby, 1st Baronet; Sir Alec Douglas-Home; James Heathcote-Drummond-Willoughby, 3rd Earl of Ancaster and Victor Raikes.[16] After the failure of the amendment,Henry Strauss, 1st Baron Conesford, the Member of Parliament for Norwich, resigned his seat in protest at the British treatment of Poland.[16]When the Second World War ended, a Communist government was installed in Poland. Many Poles felt betrayed by their wartime allies. Many Polish soldiers refused to return to Poland, because of the Soviet repressions of Polish citizens (1939–1946), the Trial of the Sixteen and other executions of pro-Western Poles, particularly the former members of the AK (Armia Krajowa). The result was the Polish Resettlement Act 1947, Britain's first mass immigration law.
    Yeah great idea to go to war with the Soviet Union especially when the continent had just been devastated. Get real and don't just learn history but also understand it.
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    (Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
    Yeah great idea to go to war with the Soviet Union especially when the continent had just been devastated. Get real and don't just learn history but also understand it.
    ...so no apology there.
    Obviously you do not know history as well as you think.
    Russia was devastated too, far more so than USA/UK.
    I certainly think the USA/UK could have put more pressure on the USSR...

    How do I know this to be true.

    I know this to be true, because Finland fought on the Nazi side and
    kept its independence and its border right up close to Russia's second
    city. This only happened because Russia was way weaker than
    people make out.

    I think it is fair to say, if we got Finland off the hook, we could have got
    some of Poland off the hook too. We should have sent a Fleet into the
    Baltic and parked outside a Polish City.

    Obviously you are not going to say sorry.
    That is a shame.

    But nevertheless BREXIT: are now stabbing the poles in the back
    once more. If anyone should be allowed free access to the UK
    it should be the millions of Poles who want to come and work
    who add greatly to this country.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Can a Brexit voter look a Pole in the eye and not feel ashamed?
    Yes I can in your interpretation, Poles decided to come here and democracy takes place accross the entire electorate not just Bremainers and Europeans . Most of the time on the 74 bus I look at them with disgust because they can not speak English and decoded to live here
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Can a Brexit voter look a Pole in the eye and not feel ashamed?
    Happily.

    But then I'm a history graduate and also pretty good with my geography.

    Coupled with some basic common sense I'm contented that since there was the whole of Europe, namely Nazi Germany between the UK and Poland, it is in no way on the UK's feet that Poland fell to a belligerent and powerful immediate neighbours.
    (What, you think the UK should have fought off the USSR to? I'll assume you are aware the UK was in no position to fight a war in Europe at the fall of Poland, the western allies were relying on French manpower and materiel to hold the lines. You want to wag a finger at someone, shake it at the French for not taking the Saar offensive seriously and overrunning Germany in the beginning.)

    As for the Poles of 2016, well they were getting a good deal out of free travel & residency to the UK, but sometimes greater considerations take priority.
    Genuinely. I'm sorry for our Polish buddies if they get sent back home to spend their £££, but as super cool as Poles are, I kinda like democratic accountability and the long-term economic prospects of the UK more.
    Sorry, but I have to live here to.

    Anyway sorry Pole-bros, nothing personal.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Happily.

    But then I'm a history graduate and also pretty good with my geography.

    Coupled with some basic common sense I'm contented that since there was the whole of Europe, namely Nazi Germany between the UK and Poland, it is in no way on the UK's feet that Poland fell to a belligerent and powerful immediate neighbours.
    (What, you think the UK should have fought off the USSR to? I'll assume you are aware the UK was in no position to fight a war in Europe at the fall of Poland, the western allies were relying on French manpower and materiel to hold the lines. You want to wag a finger at someone, shake it at the French for not taking the Saar offensive seriously and overrunning Germany in the beginning.)

    As for the Poles of 2016, well they were getting a good deal out of free travel & residency to the UK, but sometimes greater considerations take priority.
    Genuinely. I'm sorry for our Polish buddies if they get sent back home to spend their £££, but as super cool as Poles are, I kinda like democratic accountability and the long-term economic prospects of the UK more.
    Sorry, but I have to live here to.

    Anyway sorry Pole-bros, nothing personal.
    I'll get back to you later
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    I'll get back to you later
    Don't worry, I won't read it.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Happily.

    But then I'm a history graduate and also pretty good with my geography.

    Coupled with some basic common sense I'm contented that since there was the whole of Europe, namely Nazi Germany between the UK and Poland, it is in no way on the UK's feet that Poland fell to a belligerent and powerful immediate neighbours.
    (What, you think the UK should have fought off the USSR to? I'll assume you are aware the UK was in no position to fight a war in Europe at the fall of Poland, the western allies were relying on French manpower and materiel to hold the lines. You want to wag a finger at someone, shake it at the French for not taking the Saar offensive seriously and overrunning Germany in the beginning.)

    As for the Poles of 2016, well they were getting a good deal out of free travel & residency to the UK, but sometimes greater considerations take priority.
    Genuinely. I'm sorry for our Polish buddies if they get sent back home to spend their £££, but as super cool as Poles are, I kinda like democratic accountability and the long-term economic prospects of the UK more.
    Sorry, but I have to live here to.

    Anyway sorry Pole-bros, nothing personal.
    HOW THE UK LET POLAND DOWN IN 1945
    ================================ ===

    a) You're the expert here and as a REMAIN'er it is my view that you should know more about this topic than me, all things being equal... However, I have no idea if your history degree covers 1945, in which case being a "history expert" would be a bit of a red herring - hence I shall continue for now.

    b) We do know that Finland - directly opposite Poland, remained free during the cold war, even though it was an actually ally of the Third Reich. Whereas Poland gave us 200,000 troops, many who fought and died in the Africa Campaign to get rid of Rommel.

    c) We do know that the UK actually fought a war in Greece in 1945/46 to keep Greece free from the Soviet Union. So we do know the UK was able to take on the Soviets from time to time.

    d) We do know that the Royal Navy and US Navy in 1945 had ships in the baltic sea.

    e) We do know that up until the 1950s people all over Europe could move more or less freely ... Thus it would have been quite possible for the USA or the UK to park a couple of battle ships in the major ports of Poland.

    Thus in summary, as someone who is not a History Graduate, I would say it would have been possible, at the very least, to make a "Half Arsed" attempted at keeping parts of Poland Free (eg via Coastal Ports).

    Thus I say that we let Poland down in 1945 and now the UK people have let Poland down again in 2016.

    BREXIT: a stab in Poland's back - again!
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    JordanL I sincerely apologise from the bottom of my heart for thinking you were a psychotic Remainer. OP has overtaken you in that position.
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    Political Ambassador
    How did I manage to guess the OP before seeing it?
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    All the Eastern Europeans I know work on farms/factories... jobs that Brits would NEVER take up (regardless of if unemployed or not)
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    (Original post by The Racist Dragon)
    All the Eastern Europeans I know work on farms/factories... jobs that Brits would NEVER take up (regardless of if unemployed or not)
    The only come once a year at Ambridge (I'm not sure if BBC Radio 4 have this right but their farm "facts" are normally reasonably reliable) .
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    (Original post by The Racist Dragon)
    All the Eastern Europeans I know work on farms/factories... jobs that Brits would NEVER take up (regardless of if unemployed or not)
    The majority of British people of working age voted REMAIN.

    If your idea was correct, that poles were taking British jobs, then the majority of British people of working age would not have voted remain.

    Your argument therefore is false. British workers are OK, with the EU and the Poles.
 
 
 
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