EU has already started squeezing Russel Group members out of research budgets

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It's started.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/12/uk-scientists-dropped-from-eu-projects-because-of-post-brexit-funding-fears

News coming in from across the country that EU research grants are drying up, Russell Group researchers are being overlooked for new projects and in some cases dropped immediately.

This is the beginning of very bad news for British universities - a large drop in research income.

It will be followed from next year by a similar drop in EU student numbers as those dry up due to uncertainty about future course funding and compatibility.

I mostly feel sad really, because the UK is now going to start a slide from premier position amongst EU universities to end up goodness knows where, perhaps something like Australia or Canada? Well down the pecking order. This is bad news for all of us, students, staff, researchers and for British success and scientific and cultural progress both here and around the world.

Considering that it's all happened because of exaggerated fears being stoked up about immigration by Tory interests representing some offshored tax-evading oligarchs, it's pretty depressing stuff.

This is totally misleading.

The EU hasn't cut any funding. What is happening is that European universities are missing UK universities off their funding applications because of the uncertainty about Brexit. Universities aren't willing to take the risk of including British institutions until they know what the deal is.

Reply 61

Fullofsurprises

Original post by nulli tertius

Hmmm. (1) A cut. (2) A "missing off funding due to uncertainty". Not a lot of difference, albeit I grant, a slight one. :holmes:

Anyway, I didn't use the word "cut". I used "squeezing budgets".

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 62

Josb

Original post by Saoirse:3

Have you got any evidence to support that? It seems illogical - they pay tuition fees just like British students that on average cover the vast majority of course costs, and use their own money rather than student loans to fund living costs which of course promotes growth.

They can get loans and they pay their fees to student finance; they don't make a bank transfer to British unis. Since they are less likely to stay in the UK after graduating, they will repay at a much slower rate (most EU countries have lower wages)... if they decide to declare their revenues. It is easier for them to dupe SF from abroad.

Original post by Puddles the Monkey

I think EU students have access to student loans also.

However, having less EU students will mean less money for universities as they are an extra source of income which has now been cut off. Universities want to take on as many students as possible.

That's a part of the problem.

Original post by Yellow 03

Switzerland is not in the EU but its academic research has been heavily funded by the EU, including CERN. This arrangement, alongside any access the Swiss have to the single market (which excludes the banking sector, among many other sectors) rests on the fact that they were required to accept the EU's free movement of people. Following their recent referendum which decided to limit free movement, the academic funding from the EU has been slashed immediately and dramatically, and universities are struggling to find other sources of funding. Nobody said that this is the end of research for the UK, but it is naive to dismiss the benefits of the EU for the academic sector.

Switzerland has enough money to cope with the loss of EU funding, especially when you compare lecturers' salaries with their French, German and Italian counterparts. In Switzerland PhD students earn as much as full professors in France... The Swiss Franc is also skyrocketing high; they could afford cutting salaries if necessary.

Their main concern is in fact the loss of their network, because other European unis will reduce their collaboration with them in order to maximise their chance at the ERC competition. They will be isolated, excluded from main European projects, etc.

CERN will not be impacted though as it doesn't belong to the EU. It was created in 1954, before the EU. It's another organisation, like NATO; that's why Israel is a full member of CERN.

Reply 63

Betelgeuse-

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Reply 64

username1539513

Hasn't Oxford been around since 1167 or something like that? I'm sure if it's survived 800 odd years without being in the EU and still be amazing it can survive Brexit.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 65

Fullofsurprises

Of course it can 'survive', that's not the point, the issue is the quality of UK research and the size and scope of the UK university research sector, which is currently an important contributor to the economy.

Anyway, they didn't do a lot of research in 1167, unless you call counting the number of angels on a pinhead 'research'. :teehee:

Reply 66

Fullofsurprises

Original post by Betelgeuse-

Why did you post a picture of Nigel Farage?

Reply 67

nulli tertius

Original post by Fullofsurprises

Anyway, they didn't do a lot of research in 1167, unless you call counting the number of angels on a pinhead 'research'. :teehee:

That is monstrously unfair. This is the period when Greek science and philosophy was recovered in the west along with Roman law.

The first Chancellor of Oxford, Robert Grossteste is a towering figure in medieval thought.