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    Just gonna start off by saying me pointing these highly evident facts out isn't me dismissing the other highly evident facts that there are a couple valid arguments from real feminists.

    Well anyway:

    ok, anecdote time, and it's been bothering me so here I go:

    I was out last weekend with some mates and one of my friends admittedly he was intoxicated (very) and started yelling in this random girl's face.

    So he walked off and went to chill at our table by himself outside, reading his phone and downing chasers as we told him to do.

    Ok so the girl is being aggressive, drunkenly, like coming outside to interrupt his convo (we know her but not well like that-he had a fling with her couple wks ago is how I know her). And she's like screaming "hey! oi! shut up!" from the door for whatever reason. He ignores her, he was chatting to a mutual guy friend of ours, ad that guy friend likes her unfortunately. But he manages to keep our friend quiet and calm and continuing the chat outside.

    Well he goes to the toilets and saying he wants to go home but some of our other mutual but not close mates (so like acquaintances) apparently decides to stroll in and tell him "this b---- is acting up, get her to stop" or something. He was instigating and my friend took the bait BUT he calmly says to her, "yo...go...home."

    She gets all rowdy and talks loud the whole time in his face. He keeps repeating "go home," calmly. They're in each other's faces. She then says, "or what, you gonna hit me? HIT ME THEN." For no reason. He doesn't obviously but then she calls him stupid or something for confronting her and that's when he loses it. He kicks a stool over and it drops kinda delicately by her feet.

    She bangs on the table repeating he's stupid, he then presses her back against the table like and whispers something to her. He didn't touch her at all, he just put both hands on the table that she was leaning on, so she can't move, but he's not touching her at all.

    For NO REASON some of the male barkeeps and random dudes and our friend who likes HER slide in and pull him "off" her. Dunno why but it pissed me off, like why is he getting pulled off? She's being far more belligerent.

    Well while he does get hauled away, she chucks a ****ing glass for 0 reason at all. No one tells her don't do that, or kicks her out though. I honestly just sat there watching in boredom and then escorted him home with everyone else. And she's meantime bawling her stupid eyes out?? And everyone's consoling her.

    I mean long story short: a drunk girl aggressively yells and assaults a fairly calm man and he gets the police called and banned from the pub as far as we know, and not the girl who started it and who chucked a glass.

    Now meantime there's girls screaming at her and pinning her down actually touching her and swearing at her and they don't get chucked out...

    This happens all the time and I finally saw for myself, lads are getting persecuted and prosecuted for essentially nothing while females act mental and get off. Why.
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    So first of all, I would say this shows double standards in society, rather than double standards in feminism, because actually true feminism should work both ways, creating an equal playing field for both genders. This is what movements like 'He for She' advocate for- not only for men to stand up for women but for women to stand up for men (if you look at their campaigns, this is clearly one of their main focuses, regardless of the image of an angry shouting feminazi that the name feminism may conjure up).
    However, this definitely shows an imbalance in society because this is sexism, clear as that. Statistically, more men are criminals, but that should certainly not be an excuse to assume that every man is in a situation like this. We have to accept that women can also do bad things.
    It's the double standards in society rather than the double standards in feminism (which there shouldn't be- no one is a true feminist unless they advocate for men's rights as well as women's, although there are certainly more problem that women face than men), which need to be addressed, so instances like this are much less common.

    Okay, rant over
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    Here's one from intersectional feminism
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    (Original post by meemily)
    So first of all, I would say this shows double standards in society, rather than double standards in feminism, because actually true feminism should work both ways, creating an equal playing field for both genders. This is what movements like 'He for She' advocate for- not only for men to stand up for women but for women to stand up for men (if you look at their campaigns, this is clearly one of their main focuses, regardless of the image of an angry shouting feminazi that the name feminism may conjure up).
    However, this definitely shows an imbalance in society because this is sexism, clear as that. Statistically, more men are criminals, but that should certainly not be an excuse to assume that every man is in a situation like this. We have to accept that women can also do bad things.
    It's the double standards in society rather than the double standards in feminism (which there shouldn't be- no one is a true feminist unless they advocate for men's rights as well as women's, although there are certainly more problem that women face than men), which need to be addressed, so instances like this are much less common.

    Okay, rant over
    Yea. Exactly lol So I'm thinking this weekend go back with my friend who got kicked out (for nothing) and try and reason with the owner by bringing up that he actually didnt do anything, he's just got a big body or she's unusually small. The true sexism would be if he doesn't let him back. But I do think it's a flaw in feminism because it's like some people were saying "that's how you treat women? You don't make a woman feel scared like that," blah blah bah

    and it's like ok sure, don't yell or whatever, the socially acceptable thing to say while it's one-sided, but erm what about what she did, which was actually worse?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Here's one from intersectional feminism
    Ok?
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    I tried to follow that narrative, I really did.
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    Honestly, even though I despise modern feminism, I think this positive bias towards women predates that, and it is grounded in the view that women are both more valuable than men and have less agency than them, and the corresponding wish/impulse of both men and other women to "protect" them. "True" feminism would indeed want to fight against this; instead, it heavily capitalises on and exploits it. There is also the fact that men are just physically more dangerous than women; if a woman decides she wants to start attacking a man, he's probably not going to get seriously hurt/can fight her off. If a man is displaying any sort of aggression towards a woman, alarm bells go off for people because if he starts anything she is likely in more danger. (well, in a place with loads of glass, this is less accurate, but oh well..)
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    (Original post by offhegoes)
    I tried to follow that narrative, I really did.
    Ok basically guy gets into verbal spat with drunk girl, drunk girl throws glass, guy gets thrown out, girl gets off, and my question is why

    I've not slept all day allow me
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Ok?
    I'm agreeing that there are many double standards and just showing another one.
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    (Original post by 13 1 20 8 42)
    Honestly, even though I despise modern feminism, I think this positive bias towards women predates that, and it is grounded in the view that women are both more valuable than men and have less agency than them, and the corresponding wish/impulse of both men and other women to "protect" them. "True" feminism would indeed want to fight against this; instead, it heavily capitalises on and exploits it. There is also the fact that men are just physically more dangerous than women; if a woman decides she wants to start attacking a man, he's probably not going to get seriously hurt/can fight her off. If a man is displaying any sort of aggression towards a woman, alarm bells go off for people because if he starts anything she is likely in more danger. (well, in a place with loads of glass, this is less accurate, but oh well..)
    1st off, what? Positive bias?
    Secondly, erm she threw a glass with all her might and it nearly landed, and glass is deadly
    Third he wasn't aggressive. At all. I specified he was calm as day.
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Yea. Exactly lol So I'm thinking this weekend go back with my friend who got kicked out (for nothing) and try and reason with the owner by bringing up that he actually didnt do anything, he's just got a big body or she's unusually small. The true sexism would be if he doesn't let him back. But I do think it's a flaw in feminism because it's like some people were saying "that's how you treat women? You don't make a woman feel scared like that," blah blah bah

    and it's like ok sure, don't yell or whatever, the socially acceptable thing to say while it's one-sided, but erm what about what she did, which was actually worse?
    Yeah I know what you mean, though I do still think it's more about sexism rather than feminism, because people have been conditioned to think it's wrong to do anything to a woman but fine if it's a man (just don't be mean to anyone I say ). The roots of this probably go back further than feminism, to when women were seen as the possession of a man and thus the weaker sex- therefore, there has always been this mindset that women are like delicate little flowers, so don't even touch them. This is clearly ridiculous
    But yeah, I think you should go for it, especially if you've got multiple witnesses, as your friend doesn't have much to lose. However, try not to get into an argument, as this could work against your friend ('he clearly hurt a woman because, I mean, look at that short temper)
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    (Original post by meemily)
    Yeah I know what you mean, though I do still think it's more about sexism rather than feminism, because people have been conditioned to think it's wrong to do anything to a woman but fine if it's a man (just don't be mean to anyone I say ). The roots of this probably go back further than feminism, to when women were seen as the possession of a man and thus the weaker sex- therefore, there has always been this mindset that women are like delicate little flowers, so don't even touch them. This is clearly ridiculous
    But yeah, I think you should go for it, especially if you've got multiple witnesses, as your friend doesn't have much to lose. However, try not to get into an argument, as this could work against your friend ('he clearly hurt a woman because, I mean, look at that short temper)
    Oh **** me exactly emily! lol
    I'm struggling to word it like...people overestimate blokes because they're "big and strong" or whatever, and automatically presume them as threats you know? Is that not wrong? Did I miss something? He's being calm as a flower and she's throwing **** swearing tryna jump over people holding her back, refusing to shut the **** up, and he is calmly advising she goes home because she's blathered and in the end, he gets literally dragged out -__-
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    1st off, what? Positive bias?
    Secondly, erm she threw a glass with all her might and it nearly landed, and glass is deadly
    Third he wasn't aggressive. At all. I specified he was calm as day.
    Erm, yes, positive bias...they are clearly biased in the woman's favour
    Yes, often the actuality of a situation takes a backseat to people's prejudices (people think "men are stronger -> men trying to hurt women worse than vice versa", even though when glass is involved it hardly matters, it's going to hurt..)
    Vaguely threatening, then. I highly doubt he would have done anything and you seem to perhaps be under the impression I am not on the guy's side. I very much am, these biases are ridiculous. I am just hesitant as to how much we can blame on feminism
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    I would like to add he did smash a drink down on the table and made amess but still nowhere as bad as her deliberately tryna make contact with his body with glass. He never did that.
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    (Original post by 13 1 20 8 42)
    Erm, yes, positive bias...they are clearly biased in the woman's favour
    Yes, often the actuality of a situation takes a backseat to people's prejudices (people think "men are stronger -> men trying to hurt women worse than vice versa", even though when glass is involved it hardly matters, it's going to hurt..)
    Vaguely threatening, then. I highly doubt he would have done anything and you seem to perhaps be under the impression I am not on the guy's side. I very much am, these biases are ridiculous. I am just hesitant as to how much we can blame on feminism
    You were rationalising the opposing view from mine so yea I would assume you're not on my side lol
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    You were rationalising the opposing view from mine so yea I would assume you're not on my side lol
    I wasn't rationalising the view, I was rationalising the behaviour. Trying to understand why people act in such a moronic and sexist manner.
    (and perhaps rationalising is the incorrect word even for that, as it implies they may be justified; simply "trying to explain" would do)
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Oh **** me exactly emily! lol
    I'm struggling to word it like...people overestimate blokes because they're "big and strong" or whatever, and automatically presume them as threats you know? Is that not wrong? Did I miss something? He's being calm as a flower and she's throwing **** swearing tryna jump over people holding her back, refusing to shut the **** up, and he is calmly advising she goes home because she's blathered and in the end, he gets literally dragged out -__-
    I completely get you (and I think you actually worded it quite well), it's so stupid assuming things immediately based on someone's looks rather than their actions. People dont seem to be able to look past their prejudices, like they blatantly ignore the facts in front of them just because it doesn't correlate with what they think should've happened based on stereotypes.
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    (Original post by 13 1 20 8 42)
    I wasn't rationalising the view, I was rationalising the behaviour. Trying to understand why people act in such a moronic and sexist manner.
    (and perhaps rationalising is the incorrect word even for that, as it implies they may be justified; simply "trying to explain" would do)
    Rationalising is the proper word though it's an assumption, it's not incorrectly used in context, as you just said you're rationalising.
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    This is why you don't get drunk
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    Rationalising is the proper word though it's an assumption, it's not incorrectly used in context, as you just said you're rationalising.
    Alright..
    I think we are on rather unnecessary details at the moment lol. The point is that I believe the notion that women need protecting and are more valuable and vulnerable than men is one that has been around since before feminism, but modern feminism is certainly capitalising on it (and perhaps worsening it to some extent).
 
 
 
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