Why are "Islamic Extremists" often not religious at all?

Watch
This discussion is closed.
Aztec123
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#1
The Nice terrorist was a wife-beating, booze drinking druggie who never went to mosquehttp://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...im-family-say#

The Orlando shooter would regularly go to gay clubs and get drunk https://www.rt.com/usa/346613-orland...ay-tendencies/He was also a regular steroid user http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...nap-story.html

Paris attacks mastermind Adbelhamid Abaaoud 'drank beer and smoked cannabis' celebrating atrocities, also regularly went to gay bars http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...baaoud-6863209

Man accused of plotting a 7/7-style bomb attack on the Westfield shopping centre is a 'lowlife idiot' who enjoyed drugs and alcohol, according to his brother http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...g-brother.html

These are all very recent examples, I'm sure there's plenty more if you further back. What do you think the reason is?
3
oShahpo
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#2
Report 4 years ago
#2
I think to carry out such large scale murders you need to be mentally unstable, and mentally unstable people are not likely to be able to pursue something as hard as maintaining religious rituals. However, I suspect for every one of those you will find tens of actual hardcore religious Muslims who support them.
1
MildredMalone
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3
Report 4 years ago
#3
For muslims, dying in an act of terror commpletely wipes their late clean, like plenary indulgence.
2
JeremyHunt
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#4
Report 4 years ago
#4
some ISIS supporters go to mosques and get radicalised
0
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#5
Report 4 years ago
#5
(Original post by Aztec123)
x
Never heard of the term "undercover"?

Seriously though, in reality it is usually the vulnerable, the damaged, the easily led who are most easily radicalised. Coupled with the fact that Islam promises forgiveness of all sins and the highest place in paradise for those who die as martyrs "fighting in the way of Allah", such examples are not at all surprising.
2
the bear
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#6
Report 4 years ago
#6
the only way these losers can become famous is to do these nasty things.
1
viddy9
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#7
Report 4 years ago
#7
People who are disenfranchised and who have identity problems are more likely to be drawn to terrorist organisations than people who are highly devout.

Dr. Malise Ruthven, an expert in the field of Islamic studies, notes that “apocalyptic movements under a charismatic leader have always appealed to people who suffer from social alienation or who are seeking some new source of meaning”

According to Richard Barrett, a former director of global counter-terrorism operations for MI6, "Isis projects a strong identity and sense of purpose and it appeals in particular to people who lack both; it offers them the opportunity to be part of something new, regardless of their gender or abilities.”

In 2008, MI5's behavioural science unit concluded that “far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes”. MI5 also concluded that a well-established religious identity may protect against radicalisation.

Nevertheless, it's misleading to say that these terrorist attacks have nothing to do with Islam. They have something to do with Islam. In particular, senior officials in ISIS and other terrorist organisations genuinely believe that they're fulfilling their duties as Muslims. Every ideology has its extremists who genuinely believe that they are acting true to that ideology; jihadist groups are so prominent because they've been able to take advantage of the long-standing sociopolitical strife in the Middle East.

This is why we should continue to support efforts in Muslim communities to prevent radicalisation, discredit the views of extremist Muslims, along with addressing issues such as alienation and other issues such as Western foreign policy.
7
TSR Mustafa
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#8
Report 4 years ago
#8
(Original post by MildredMalone)
For muslims, dying in an act of terror commpletely wipes their late clean, like plenary indulgence.
Blowing up innocent people isn't martyrdom.
6
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#9
Report 4 years ago
#9
(Original post by TSR Mustafa)
Blowing up innocent people isn't martyrdom.
But who decides who are "innocent", or what the definition of "innocent" is?

Remember that the likes of ISIS are using a literalist, medievalist, retentionist interpretation of some very ambiguous texts.

I'm sure you are aware, but one of the justifications used is Ibn Kathir's tafsir on verse 5:33. According to this, anyone who 'opposes, contradicts or disbelieves" Islam, or who "disobeys god's law" is not "innocent" and is liable to punishment that includes death.

Obviously, there are other interpretations and explanations available, but Ibn Kathir is one of the most widely used and well respected of all the classical scholars, so it is difficult to simply reject it as extremist misinterpretation.

There are other passages about the great reward awaiting in paradise for those who die fighting in the way of Allah, and the sahih hadith where Muhammad permits the collateral damage of killing women and children during night attacks on idolators.
So we can see that it is impossible to legitimately say that their actions are "not Islamic", only that (hopefully) the majority of Muslims reject the actions taken under that particular interpretation.
0
Eunomia
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#10
Report 4 years ago
#10
I was speaking to my mum about this the other day and she said something that I wholeheartedly agreed with: it's usually some of the religious people who fuel the hatred and bigotry coming from the extremists. Many Muslims are not like this, however it is not exactly uncommon to come across those who are always running their mouths about the "filthy" disbelievers are, how only Islam can save them and how they are the lowest of the creations. Not to mention the fact that Muslims who they perceive as irreligious also become the target of their hatred; my mum was telling me how a coworker of hers in full abaya is always glaring at her for wearing her hijab turban-style with sandals.

These people may not be the sort to go out and shoot random people in public, however they do fuel the sort of mentality which groups like Da'esh (who claimed responsibility for the Nice attack) promote. He may have drank alcohol and refused to pray but he was in the position which made him the perfect candidate for radicalisation, and certain religious people are part of the problem.
2
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#11
Report 4 years ago
#11
(Original post by oShahpo)
However, I suspect for every one of those you will find tens of actual hardcore religious Muslims who support them.
Literally tens of Muslims.
Spoiler:
Show
:rofl:
1
swiss_cheese
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#12
Report 4 years ago
#12
Because they are just hateful people, and proclaiming to support ISIS amplifies the effect of any attack you commit.
0
oShahpo
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#13
Report 4 years ago
#13
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Literally tens of Muslims.
Spoiler:
Show
:rofl:
It's not a small number, given the large amount of terrorists present in the world atm.
0
La Mush
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#14
Report 4 years ago
#14
we all know the truth the problem is islam and muslims
3
HanSoloLuck
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#15
Report 4 years ago
#15
Muslims say it has nothing to do with Islam because they don't want to shoulder the responsibility for something they created, politicians parrot this because the reality of the situation is that they have allowed very large numbers of people in to our countries that make the Nazis look good by comparison.

It has everything to do with Islam and every single Muslim is responsible, they might not all commit acts of violence, but they create the people that do and are completely indifferent towards stopping this. It's really disgusting that they will say Islam is not the problem or that it's peaceful when we have people being murdered and raped and enslaved all around us by people screaming that Islam calls them to do these things.
3
swiss_cheese
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#16
Report 4 years ago
#16
(Original post by HanSoloLuck)
Muslims say it has nothing to do with Islam because they don't want to shoulder the responsibility for something they created, politicians parrot this because the reality of the situation is that they have allowed very large numbers of people in to our countries that make the Nazis look good by comparison.

It has everything to do with Islam and every single Muslim is responsible, they might not all commit acts of violence, but they create the people that do and are completely indifferent towards stopping this. It's really disgusting that they will say Islam is not the problem or that it's peaceful when we have people being murdered and raped and enslaved all around us by people screaming that Islam calls them to do these things.
bigotry at its finest.

Islam is simply not the problem. If Islam were the singular factor which caused these people to go and decide to murder non-believers, then why is this problem borderline nonexistent in the highest Muslim population countries? Indonesia has had fewer terrorist attacks in recent years than Paris, but it is almost 90% Muslim.

The cause of this problem is war. When you are a young person caught in the middle of a conflict induced by failed western foreign policy / intervention, and when you have corrupt dictators or brutal regimes ruling the country, you become radicalised. Violence and persecution becomes the norm, you become full of hatred and you want to blame it on other people.

Islam is simply the curtain these murderers hide behind, because being labelled as an 'Islamic terrorist' has a better vibe than being labelled a 'one-off madman' or 'murderer'. These 'Islamic terrorists' don't give a single **** about Islam or Muslims.
3
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#17
Report 4 years ago
#17
(Original post by oShahpo)
It's not a small number, given the large amount of terrorists present in the world atm.
ten whole muslims.



Oh look.

"Truck terrorist's cousin reveals he is an 'unlikely jihadist' who beat his wife and NEVER went to the mosque "

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-mosque.html
0
HanSoloLuck
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#18
Report 4 years ago
#18
(Original post by swiss_cheese)
bigotry at its finest.

Islam is simply not the problem. If Islam were the singular factor which caused these people to go and decide to murder non-believers, then why is this problem borderline nonexistent in the highest Muslim population countries? Indonesia has had fewer terrorist attacks in recent years than Paris, but it is almost 90% Muslim.

The cause of this problem is war. When you are a young person caught in the middle of a conflict induced by failed western foreign policy / intervention, and when you have corrupt dictators or brutal regimes ruling the country, you become radicalised. Violence and persecution becomes the norm, you become full of hatred and you want to blame it on other people.

Islam is simply the curtain these murderers hide behind, because being labelled as an 'Islamic terrorist' has a better vibe than being labelled a 'one-off madman' or 'murderer'. These 'Islamic terrorists' don't give a single **** about Islam or Muslims.
Government travel advice advice on Indonesia;

"There is a high threat from terrorism. Terrorist groups continue to plan and carry out attacks. These groups have the capacity and intent to carry out attacks at anytime and anywhere in the country. Type of attacks have included suicide bombings and small-arms fire, targeting public and crowded places.Even though the Indonesian authorities have successfully disrupted attack planning in the recent past, the threat from Islamist extremism remains high.On 14 January 2016 a terrorist attack took place near the Sari Pan Pacific Hotel and Sarinah Plaza on Jalan M.H. Thamrin in central Jakarta. The attack included a number of explosions and gun battles. Eight people died and a number were injured, including foreigners. The last major attack before this was on 17 July 2009 when the JW Marriot and Ritz-Carlton hotels in Jakarta were bombed. One British national was killed. Small-scale attacks occur on a regular basis and further attacks are likely.Indonesian government, law enforcement interests and places of worship are regularly targeted by extremists. Western interests are also at risk."

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...esia/terrorism
0
swiss_cheese
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#19
Report 4 years ago
#19
(Original post by HanSoloLuck)
Government travel advice advice on Indonesia;

"There is a high threat from terrorism. Terrorist groups continue to plan and carry out attacks. These groups have the capacity and intent to carry out attacks at anytime and anywhere in the country. Type of attacks have included suicide bombings and small-arms fire, targeting public and crowded places.Even though the Indonesian authorities have successfully disrupted attack planning in the recent past, the threat from Islamist extremism remains high.On 14 January 2016 a terrorist attack took place near the Sari Pan Pacific Hotel and Sarinah Plaza on Jalan M.H. Thamrin in central Jakarta. The attack included a number of explosions and gun battles. Eight people died and a number were injured, including foreigners. The last major attack before this was on 17 July 2009 when the JW Marriot and Ritz-Carlton hotels in Jakarta were bombed. One British national was killed. Small-scale attacks occur on a regular basis and further attacks are likely.Indonesian government, law enforcement interests and places of worship are regularly targeted by extremists. Western interests are also at risk."

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...esia/terrorism
This is meaningless, there is a high terror threat in Britain, but we still go about our everyday lives just as normal. A 'high terror risk' is still excessively low - the risk itself is a threat to the country and not to individuals.

Indonesia has had one terror attack recently, which was essentially stopped by security forces.

But according to your bigoted anti Islam / anti Muslim rhetoric, it should have had thousands, given that it is virtually of 90% Muslim population.
2
HanSoloLuck
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#20
Report 4 years ago
#20
(Original post by swiss_cheese)
This is meaningless, there is a high terror threat in Britain, but we still go about our everyday lives just as normal. A 'high terror risk' is still excessively low - the risk itself is a threat to the country and not to individuals.

Indonesia has had one terror attack recently, which was essentially stopped by security forces.

But according to your bigoted anti Islam / anti Muslim rhetoric, it should have had thousands, given that it is virtually of 90% Muslim population.
That the Indonesian government is better at thwarting Muslim terrorists doesn't mean they don't have a problem with MUSLIMS trying to kill in the name of Islam. They do, and they routinely terrorize their own citizens in the name of Islam, they flog homosexuals in public, they just recently flogged a 60 year old Christian woman for selling alcohol during Ramadan.

The government openly assaults it's own citizens in the name of Islam, and you are going to unabashedly hold it up as proof that Islam isn't the cause of Islamic violence... not wasting my time on this.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Following the government's announcement, do you think you will be awarded a fair grade this year?

Yes (156)
51.66%
No (146)
48.34%

Watched Threads

View All