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    Turkey has a history of military coups. Coups are acts of seizing power off of the government, essentially overthrowing the political leaders in the interest of the people .

    In short, when the people of Turkey are unhappy with the government, the military steps in and [attempts] to overthrow the government.

    First of all, to understand the place coups hold in the political infrastructure of Turkey, you have to know 2 things about the military:

    1. Unlike the military in the US and many other nations, neither the Turkish prime minister nor the president are "commander in chief."

    2. Military service in Turkey is compulsory for all men, who can serve at many different ages, so the military is in large part laypeople.

    The military's SOLE duty is to defend the republic and its people. Sometimes, the threat to the republic and its people is its government.

    What this means is, the army is in a way run by the people [civilians] of Turkey, in such a way so that if there is a threat to them, the military will take action.

    This coup was not authorised as previous coups were [in Turkey], which is by the lead commander of the military. This was against the chain of command in the military, and was an act of treason not against the government, but against the people of Turkey themselves, by a faction of the military.

    The [majority] people of Turkey fought alongside the government against this coup, making this coup attempt completely illegal and uncalled for.

    If this coup was called for by the people, then you wouldn't see armed civilians standing out against military tanks and helicopters in an attempt to defend their country and president who they believe in.

    Ultimately, this coup would have much more likely been successful if it was truly in the interest of the people.

    All the Turkish people I know, including those living there, are standing with Erdoğan because what he has done for the country is great, regardless of what mainstream media outlets will like you to believe.

    If the people of Turkey are happy with Erdoğan, then let them be happy.

    The people of Turkey have stood up for what they believe in and what they want.
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    It was interesting to see the initial responses from world leaders: they were somewhat muted, and didn't take sides, suggesting that ties between Erdogan and the international community have weakened.

    Erdogan is only going to become more authoritarian now; this will strengthen him further. That said, the military coup was unlikely to have resulted in more democracy without the support of the people.
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    Lols and EU was actually thinking of letting then into the EU.

    If they did get in, good thing Britain is getting out. Not interested in having to pay / support what is clearly another broken country

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    While I'm certainly glad to see a coup defeated, I do fear that Erdogan is going to use this to justify more repression against Kurds and leftists.
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    (Original post by That Arab Guy)
    This was against the chain of command in the military, and was an act of treason not against the government, but against the people of Turkey themselves, by a faction of the military.
    Your claim that a coup sanctioned by the leadership of the military is legal while one done by only sections of it doesn't make any sense. Legally, any coup against a democratically elected govt. is probably illegal. I am saying probably because the constitutions of some countries (e.g. Germany) explicitly allow active resistance against anyone attempting to undermine and abolish the democratic system, including the government, democratically elected or not.

    The [majority] people of Turkey fought alongside the government against this coup, making this coup attempt completely illegal and uncalled for. All the Turkish people I know, including those living there, are standing with Erdoğan because what he has done for the country is great, regardless of what mainstream media outlets will like you to believe. If the people of Turkey are happy with Erdoğan, then let them be happy.
    You fail to realise that the people do not automatically decide what is right/legal or wrong/illegal. A democracy is defined by a range of features, with democratic elections/the will of the majority being followed only being one feature. A democracy also needs checks and balances (e.g. an independent judiciary and press) and needs to adhere to constitutional principles, such as protecting minorities, due process etc.

    That means just because a government enjoys the support of the majority doesn't mean it can do whatever it wants to do.

    I know this example has been beaten to death, but the Nazi party enjoyed majority support in Germany, which still does not make their actions legal. And the conspirators of the the 20th July 1944 - von Stauffenberg, Olbricht, von Witzleben, von Haeften, Moltke etc. - were completely right in attempting a coup against the government, despite probably not enjoying the support of the majority. They acted against a dictatorial government, which is enough of a justification.*

    Erdogan has progressively turned Turkey more and more authoritarian. He purged the judiciary to an extent that it is not independent any more, the few judges that still dare to uphold the law he just ignores (such as when a court rules that his presidential palace cannot be built in a nature reserve, and he just did it anyway),*his rule has seen Turkey drop to 149th place out of 180 in Reporters Without Borders' ranking of press freedom, he is waging war on the Kurdish minority and has taken legal action against the HDP ...

    The list goes on. Now that the coup has failed his government is already exploring the reintroduction of the death penalty and only hours after its end miraculously produced a list of 2,700 judges to be dismissed. Obviously 99.9% had nothing to do with the coup, but what a nice opportunity ...

    Irrespective of what is behind this coup, whether it was genuine or Erdogan orchestrated it himself, removing an authoritarian government is the right thing to do and should be supported.

    I was hoping for this coup to succeed and woke up this morning disappointed.*
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    (Original post by That Arab Guy)
    Turkey has a history of military coups. Coups are acts of seizing power off of the government, essentially overthrowing the political leaders in the interest of the people .

    In short, when the people of Turkey are unhappy with the government, the military steps in and [attempts] to overthrow the government.

    First of all, to understand the place coups hold in the political infrastructure of Turkey, you have to know 2 things about the military:

    1. Unlike the military in the US and many other nations, neither the Turkish prime minister nor the president are "commander in chief."

    2. Military service in Turkey is compulsory for all men, who can serve at many different ages, so the military is in large part laypeople.

    The military's SOLE duty is to defend the republic and its people. Sometimes, the threat to the republic and its people is its government.

    What this means is, the army is in a way run by the people [civilians] of Turkey, in such a way so that if there is a threat to them, the military will take action.

    This coup was not authorised as previous coups were [in Turkey], which is by the lead commander of the military. This was against the chain of command in the military, and was an act of treason not against the government, but against the people of Turkey themselves, by a faction of the military.

    The [majority] people of Turkey fought alongside the government against this coup, making this coup attempt completely illegal and uncalled for.

    If this coup was called for by the people, then you wouldn't see armed civilians standing out against military tanks and helicopters in an attempt to defend their country and president who they believe in.

    Ultimately, this coup would have much more likely been successful if it was truly in the interest of the people.

    All the Turkish people I know, including those living there, are standing with Erdoğan because what he has done for the country is great, regardless of what mainstream media outlets will like you to believe.

    If the people of Turkey are happy with Erdoğan, then let them be happy.

    The people of Turkey have stood up for what they believe in and what they want.
    Thanks for the analysis
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    (Original post by Sir Fox)
    Your claim that a coup sanctioned by the leadership of the military is legal while one done by only sections of it doesn't make any sense. Legally, any coup against a democratically elected govt. is probably illegal. I am saying probably because the constitutions of some countries (e.g. Germany) explicitly allow active resistance against anyone attempting to undermine and abolish the democratic system, including the government, democratically elected or not.



    You fail to realise that the people do not automatically decide what is right/legal or wrong/illegal. A democracy is defined by a range of features, with democratic elections/the will of the majority being followed only being one feature. A democracy also needs checks and balances (e.g. an independent judiciary and press) and needs to adhere to constitutional principles, such as protecting minorities, due process etc.

    That means just because a government enjoys the support of the majority doesn't mean it can do whatever it wants to do.

    I know this example has been beaten to death, but the Nazi party enjoyed majority support in Germany, which still does not make their actions legal. And the conspirators of the the 20th July 1944 - von Stauffenberg, Olbricht, von Witzleben, von Haeften, Moltke etc. - were completely right in attempting a coup against the government, despite probably not enjoying the support of the majority. They acted against a dictatorial government, which is enough of a justification.*

    Erdogan has progressively turned Turkey more and more authoritarian. He purged the judiciary to an extent that it is not independent any more, the few judges that still dare to uphold the law he just ignores (such as when a court rules that his presidential palace cannot be built in a nature reserve, and he just did it anyway),*his rule has seen Turkey drop to 149th place out of 180 in Reporters Without Borders' ranking of press freedom, he is waging war on the Kurdish minority and has taken legal action against the HDP ...

    The list goes on. Now that the coup has failed his government is already exploring the reintroduction of the death penalty and only hours after its end miraculously produced a list of 2,700 judges to be dismissed. Obviously 99.9% had nothing to do with the coup, but what a nice opportunity ...

    Irrespective of what is behind this coup, whether it was genuine or Erdogan orchestrated it himself, removing an authoritarian government is the right thing to do and should be supported.

    I was hoping for this coup to succeed and woke up this morning disappointed.*
    You are correct, by definition all coups are illegal.

    I think it's important to realise that the people of Turkey supported Erdogan, so why should we get ourselves involved when the people of Turkey are happy ? Who are we to choose how a country should be run?

    A western style democracy is favoured by the west. We have to understand that not every nation is going to be run like ours, and so long as there is no oppression or illegality in Turkey, why should we care ?

    The people are happy, let it be.
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    (Original post by Sir Fox)
    Your claim that a coup sanctioned by the leadership of the military is legal while one done by only sections of it doesn't make any sense. Legally, any coup against a democratically elected govt. is probably illegal. I am saying probably because the constitutions of some countries (e.g. Germany) explicitly allow active resistance against anyone attempting to undermine and abolish the democratic system, including the government, democratically elected or not.



    You fail to realise that the people do not automatically decide what is right/legal or wrong/illegal. A democracy is defined by a range of features, with democratic elections/the will of the majority being followed only being one feature. A democracy also needs checks and balances (e.g. an independent judiciary and press) and needs to adhere to constitutional principles, such as protecting minorities, due process etc.

    That means just because a government enjoys the support of the majority doesn't mean it can do whatever it wants to do.

    I know this example has been beaten to death, but the Nazi party enjoyed majority support in Germany, which still does not make their actions legal. And the conspirators of the the 20th July 1944 - von Stauffenberg, Olbricht, von Witzleben, von Haeften, Moltke etc. - were completely right in attempting a coup against the government, despite probably not enjoying the support of the majority. They acted against a dictatorial government, which is enough of a justification.*

    Erdogan has progressively turned Turkey more and more authoritarian. He purged the judiciary to an extent that it is not independent any more, the few judges that still dare to uphold the law he just ignores (such as when a court rules that his presidential palace cannot be built in a nature reserve, and he just did it anyway),*his rule has seen Turkey drop to 149th place out of 180 in Reporters Without Borders' ranking of press freedom, he is waging war on the Kurdish minority and has taken legal action against the HDP ...

    The list goes on. Now that the coup has failed his government is already exploring the reintroduction of the death penalty and only hours after its end miraculously produced a list of 2,700 judges to be dismissed. Obviously 99.9% had nothing to do with the coup, but what a nice opportunity ...

    Irrespective of what is behind this coup, whether it was genuine or Erdogan orchestrated it himself, removing an authoritarian government is the right thing to do and should be supported.

    I was hoping for this coup to succeed and woke up this morning disappointed.*

    I am just asking out of curiosity, can not the people of a democratic state have the right to turn the state into a non-democratic one democratically? What are your thoughts on that?
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    (Original post by That Arab Guy)
    You are correct, by definition all coups are illegal.

    I think it's important to realise that the people of Turkey supported Erdogan, so why should we get ourselves involved when the people of Turkey are happy ? Who are we to choose how a country should be run?
    Well, we aren't getting ourselves involved. We are not meddling in their affairs or intervening, just discussing whether this coup was good/justified or not.

    The people of Germany supported Hitler, so does that mean his prosecution and murder of socialists, gypsies, Jews, disabled etc. was okay? Just because the people (actually, SOME people, it's not like the entirety of Turkey is pro-Erdogan) are happy with Erdogan doesn't mean his actions are okay.*

    A western style democracy is favoured by the west. We have to understand that not every nation is going to be run like ours, and so long as there is no oppression or illegality in Turkey, why should we care?
    The problem is that there is oppression in Turkey. Journalists are imprisoned left and right, freedom of speech restricted.

    (Original post by TheAtaKhan)
    I am just asking out of curiosity, can not the people of a democratic state have the right to turn the state into a non-democratic one democratically? What are your thoughts on that?
    Depends. Legally most states are run under a constitution, and if that constitution posits certain democratic practices and institutions, then it's illegal to turn the state non-democratic, even with a majority. The German constitution can be amended with a 2/3 majority in parliament, however it contains an article that protects a portion of the constitution from being changed in perpetuity. That section contains articles on human dignity, fundamental human rights, the principles of democracy etc. Thus even if 100% of Germans were in favour of turning the state authoritarian, technically it would be illegal (but of course with such a majority the constitution would simply be ignored).

    Irrespective of legalities, I don't think anyone has the right to turn a democratic state authoritarian, even a majority.*
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    (Original post by That Arab Guy)
    You are correct, by definition all coups are illegal.

    I think it's important to realise that the people of Turkey supported Erdogan, so why should we get ourselves involved when the people of Turkey are happy ? Who are we to choose how a country should be run?

    A western style democracy is favoured by the west. We have to understand that not every nation is going to be run like ours, and so long as there is no oppression or illegality in Turkey, why should we care ?

    The people are happy, let it be.
    So happy there was an attempted coup?

    I think we both know Turkey is actually quite divided. If Erdogan was so great and universally supported he wouldn't need to illegally shut down opposition press, remove judges and other officials, and generally calling for relatively small mobs of people to go out and get shot at while he runs and hides.

    When it came down to it the vast majority of Turkish people remained home and remained quiet.
    The majority who speak up (on places like Reddit) are disappointed, or at least seriously concerned for their and other's safety, with Erdogan's coming reprisals, and fear for the democracy they know he is going to destroy.



    That tells us a lot about just how universally popular Erdogan is.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    So happy there was an attempted coup?

    I think we both know Turkey is actually quite divided. If Erdogan was so great and universally supported he wouldn't need to illegally shut down opposition press, remove judges and other officials, and generally calling for relatively small mobs of people to go out and get shot at while he runs and hides.

    When it came down to it the vast majority of Turkish people remained home and remained quiet.
    The majority who speak up (on places like Reddit) are disappointed, or at least seriously concerned for their and other's safety, with Erdogan's coming reprisals, and fear for the democracy they know he is going to destroy.



    That tells us a lot about just how universally popular Erdogan is.
    Actually the only people who are against Erdogan are kurds.

    Not much of a divide since they are a minority.

    Also turkey has done more for war torn countries like Syria and Somalia, especially since Erdogan has been in power. My country has been given aid by UK for years and it hasn't helped much and even fuelled corruption, whereas Erdogan continuously is building schools,universities, hospitals etc and making an active effort.



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    But that shootout of turk cops vs attack chopper tho ....
 
 
 
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