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    Why are there idiots supporting this vile and evil human being?

    a) He is an Islamist who wants to erode the secularism in Turkey
    b) He has contempt for democracy and has openly admitted it
    c) Turkey under him has turned into a nation of chaos and civil war
    d) He wants to establish a dictatorship and its becoming more apparent
    e) He's purging all opposition - military, judges, anyone that is not with him
    f) He had a pre-prepared list of people to purge - are you seriously trying to tell me that hours after the coup attempt he and the police had identified thousands of people involved? Get real.

    The entire situation currently reminds me of The Night of the Long Knives and is incredibly worrying. Look at how similar the situations are and you'll see why it is worrying.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

    We are seeing the rise of a dictator in Turkey and people are celebrating like its a good thing.
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    Not everyone suports him. There were some members of the Turkish public who clapped and helped the military advance in the streets. I know a lot of Turkish people and they were against Erdogan. Also, the media is mainly reporting the violence that occured because it is more newsworthy and the actual amount who support him may be much smaller than you think.
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    To play devil's advocate, why should Turkey be secular? It's a majority Muslim country and it's only Europeans who seem to wish to erode their way of life.
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    Because a military coup would turn Turkey into the next Syria, do you really want something like that next to Greece? Europe would collapse.
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    I was watching this documentary about sex attitudes in Turkey (very interesting ngl) and I remember it said that before Erdogan, there were hundreds of government run brothels in the country which were regulated and protected the rights of prostitutes. Ever since Erdogan came into power the number of brothels have gone down drastically (because of his religious attitudes).

    It's sad because Turkey was becoming more like the Netherlands in some ways and there's been a block to it.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    To play devil's advocate, why should Turkey be secular? It's a majority Muslim country and it's only Europeans who seem to wish to erode their way of life.
    Because secularism has always been an important principle of modern Turkey?
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    (Original post by Infamous*)
    Because slavery has always been an important principle of modern America?
    See why your logic falls flat.

    The people have voted against secularism, Turkey is not a secular nation and Islam will rise, regardless of the hopes of deluded Europeans.
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    It's important to remember that he was democratically elected so the Turkish people were fighting for their democratic right and were not entirely sure what the new military regime would have bought(even though it may have been more ideal). We also have to remember that we are looking at the situation from a foreign perspective and not as an actual Turkish person currently in Ankara or Istanbul viewing the military in the streets.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    To play devil's advocate, why should Turkey be secular? It's a majority Muslim country and it's only Europeans who seem to wish to erode their way of life.
    Turkey was founded as a secular democracy and Erdogan is doing everything he can to erode that. Learn some history.
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    oh my Lord :facepalm:
    you ain't gonna listen to anyone
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    To play devil's advocate, why should Turkey be secular? It's a majority Muslim country and it's only Europeans who seem to wish to erode their way of life.
    it might be nominally a "majority Muslim country" in the same sense that the west can be argued to be "majority Christian country" (at least until recent decades where religion amongst the majority is now no longer even paid lip-service).

    It should be secular because:

    1. That is what the constitution calls for

    2. Turkish secularism doesn't stop you being a Muslim, or pursuing any other faith personally.

    3. more than half of Turks support secularism, therefore there's majority, or at least an even split of Turkish citizens who want it that way, and not just westerners.

    and a bonus reason 4:
    Islamic authoritarianism without fail registers low on all measurements of liberty and freedom. Stoning gays and women for being raped isn't really what I'd regard as a fair society, even if a majority call for it (although I'll agree it's democratic--as long as you think women and gays and minorities not getting a free vote is reasonable--if that's what the majority wants).

    Secular democracy allows everyone to pursue their own lives as they see fit as long as it's not unduely infringing on the rights, or harming others.

    Islamic authoritarianism on the other hand allows for only one world view, only one way of living and being. And if you're not interested in that, or if the state simply decides it doesn't like you much and thinks you're an enemy? Then tough luck, prepare for your human rights to be abused.


    I appreciate a good devil's advocacy as it does help people consider why they hold a position, but it's not difficult to argue against political Islam. It's up there with communism or traditional fascism. They're all authoritarian ideologies that pursue tribalistic group-think, and actively discriminate and abuse those that are 'othered' and deemed outside the in group.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Turkey was founded as a secular democracy and Erdogan is doing everything he can to erode that. Learn some history.
    This is just a meme you learned using your 30 second attention span. Turkey's history extends further back than the days of Kemal Ataturk, it was once the nation at the forefront of the Islamic Khalifa and with the rise in consciousness of Sunni Muslims this is the direction the people have chosen for their nation. This awakening stretches from Turkey in the west, to Malaysia in the east.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    See why your logic falls flat.

    The people have voted against secularism, Turkey is not a secular nation and Islam will rise, regardless of the hopes of deluded Europeans.
    Slavery was never a part of the American consitution. Don't be obtuse.
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    I'm glad the army lost, the coup was so poorly planned could you imagine those idiots in charge of nuclear weapons and containing ISIS?

    Yeah let's just put a bunch of soldiers in the street at 7pm who don't even want to use force, that'll really scare them off.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Slavery was never a part of the American consitution. Don't be obtuse.
    Constitutions can change and Turkey's will change. Only western fools arrogantly claim they have no religion, when they elevate pieces of paper written by men to the level of religious scripture.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    This is just a meme you learned using your 30 second attention span. Turkey's history extends further back than the days of Kemal Ataturk, it was once the nation at the forefront of the Islamic Khalifa and with the rise in consciousness of Sunni Muslims this is the direction the people have chosen for their nation. This awakening stretches from Turkey in the west, to Malaysia in the east.
    Turkey's history started with Ataturk. Before then was the Ottoman Empire stationed in the Anatolian peninsula.
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    (Original post by Gora The Xplorer)
    Constitutions can change and Turkey's will change. Only western fools arrogantly claim they have no religion, when they elevate pieces of paper written by men to the level of religious scripture.
    Secular state =/= non-religious population. What are you even trying to say?
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Slavery was never a part of the American consitution. Don't be obtuse.
    It was, there's specific clauses detailing slavery.
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Turkey's history started with Ataturk. Before then was the Ottoman Empire stationed in the Anatolian peninsula.
    So I presume the Ottomans all disappeared in 1924 and modern day Turks popped out of holes in the ground :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by RobML)
    Secular state =/= non-religious population. What are you even trying to say?
    The people of Turkey have come out in their millions to demand that the constitution changes and there is nothing you can or will be able to do about it. This is democracy, this is the will of the people and it will triumph.
 
 
 

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