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    This is something I've been thinking about for a while now, I don't really bring it up in conversations tho in fear of being judged as ignorant so I'll talk about it here. Imagine if we lived in a society with no gender, just the two sexes male and female. There are no gender roles, eg certain clothing associated with a gender or different hair styles or roles associated with a gender, both have the exact same roles and act in the same way, nothing is expected of a person just because of their sex. Males and females are the same apart from biological differences like genetalia etc. Would we still have trans gender people? I know that this type of society is impossible but if it did exist what are your thoughts?
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    yes
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    (Original post by Farlan)
    yes
    to elaborate;
    being transgender doesn't just extend to not being comfortable with the way society perceives you (for example, the setting you are describing, I'm assuming no one referes to eachother as he or she or anything and everything is gender neutral?) while it is a huge factor in it, many transgender people also generally do not feel comfortable in the body/gentalia they were born with, and would still seek the treatment to have it changed. Keep in mind that that isn't all it is to be transgender, you can be born with a penis, identify as a girl, and you're still transgender, it doesn't matter if you get the surgery or not, that's totally down to the individual.
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    It's funny because some people claim there are no differences between men and women, but suddenly when a man thinks they are a woman or vice versa they have a "woman's brain"; that is their justification.

    "Transgenderism" can be cured with anti-psychotic meds, yet the left glorify it and encourage kids to take exogenous hormones before puberty to fundamentally alter their biology. Sick.
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    I actually thought about this the other day and the answer would still be yes because there are some people who are also uncomfortable with their genitalia as well as the perceived stereotypes of their sex.
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    TSR Group Staff
    Trans isn't necessarily just a social thing, there's usually a physical aspect to it as well. Meaning that they want to alter their body from one sex to the other, not because of the way they are perceived by others but because of how they see themselves and shape their identity. If that makes sense.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    Trans isn't necessarily just a social thing, there's usually a physical aspect to it as well. Meaning that they want to alter their body from one sex to the other, not because of the way they are perceived by others but because of how they see themselves and shape their identity. If that makes sense.
    (Original post by Farlan)
    to elaborate;
    being transgender doesn't just extend to not being comfortable with the way society perceives you (for example, the setting you are describing, I'm assuming no one referes to eachother as he or she or anything and everything is gender neutral?) while it is a huge factor in it, many transgender people also generally do not feel comfortable in the body/gentalia they were born with, and would still seek the treatment to have it changed. Keep in mind that that isn't all it is to be transgender, you can be born with a penis, identify as a girl, and you're still transgender, it doesn't matter if you get the surgery or not, that's totally down to the individual.
    OP probably likely isn't referring to transsexualism here, but people who are comfortable with being their sex, but dress and behave as the opposite gender, or identify as 'gender fluid' or whatever.

    And the OP makes a fair point. If society decides that gender is an arbitrary, pointless social construct with no biological basis and decides to become androgenous, then most forms of transgenderism would suddenly lose legitimacy if gender ceased to be a real thing.

    Many LGTBQ activists argue that gender and gender roles are things that shouldn't exist as a masculine-femine, male-female dichotomy, but paradoxically they will support transgenderism and vigorously accept the situation where there are men who feel like women (or vice versa) and feel the need to dress and behave as the gender associated with the opposite sex.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Many LGTBQ activists argue that gender and gender roles are things that shouldn't exist as a masculine-femine, male-female dichotomy, but paradoxically they will support transgenderism and vigorously accept the situation where there are men who feel like women (or vice versa) and feel the need to dress and behave as the gender associated with the opposite sex.
    I see what you're saying but let me correct you

    Supporting a transgender person is not paradoxical to not believing in the gender binary. It's just because first world civilisation mostly suggests there IS a gender binary and expects everyone to conform to it, so when someone wishes to change the way they are perceived in that society, common courtesy is to support them with it, not tell them they're wrong because there is no such thing as gender to begin with.
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    If gender didn't exist as a concept then I can't possibly see how someone could be transgender. I mean how could you not want to be something and want to be something else if those things didn't exist? It would be akin to me saying "I don't feel comfortable with myself as a unicorn and shall henceforth identify as a dragon".
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    If gender didn't exist as a concept then I can't possibly see how someone could be transgender. I mean how could you not want to be something and want to be something else if those things didn't exist? It would be akin to me saying "I don't feel comfortable with myself as a unicorn and shall henceforth identify as a dragon".
    see
    (Original post by Farlan)
    being transgender doesn't just extend to not being comfortable with the way society perceives you (for example, the setting you are describing, I'm assuming no one referes to eachother as he or she or anything and everything is gender neutral?) while it is a huge factor in it, many transgender people also generally do not feel comfortable in the body/gentalia they were born with, and would still seek the treatment to have it changed.
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    (Original post by Farlan)
    see
    But if gender didn't exist then that would not be a problem with gender, merely with body image.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    But if gender didn't exist then that would not be a problem with gender, merely with body image.
    well it would maybe not be called 'transgender' in this scenario, if gender wasn't a thing, but there would at least be a term for "person who feels uncomfortable in the body they were born in"

    I get what you mean but it extends beyond body image issues, body image is more like "I want to lose weight/better jawline/different eyes/thinner neck" etc it's different from dysmorphia and gender identity
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    (Original post by Farlan)
    well it would maybe not be called 'transgender' in this scenario, if gender wasn't a thing, but there would at least be a term for "person who feels uncomfortable in the body they were born in"

    I get what you mean but it extends beyond body image issues, body image is more like "I want to lose weight/better jawline/different eyes/thinner neck" etc it's different from dysmorphia and gender identity
    Plenty of people feel uncomfortable in the body they're born in for more reasons than I'm willing to list. If there was no societal construct to go with what junk you had in your pants then there would be nothing differentiating such discomfort from any other sort of body issue.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Plenty of people feel uncomfortable in the body they're born in for more reasons than I'm willing to list. If there was no societal construct to go with what junk you had in your pants then there would be nothing differentiating such discomfort from any other sort of body issue.
    I know that but what I'm saying is there would probably still be a term for "person who didn't like the fact that they had a penis so now they have a vagina"

    we as a species invent terms for everything so while it wouldn't be referred to as transgender it'd still have a specific term beyond just body image issues and it'd probably still be trans-something since the trans part just means 'changed'
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    (Original post by Farlan)
    I know that but what I'm saying is there would probably still be a term for "person who didn't like the fact that they had a penis so now they have a vagina"

    we as a species invent terms for everything so while it wouldn't be referred to as transgender it'd still have a specific term beyond just body image issues and it'd probably still be trans-something since the trans part just means 'changed'
    Why would it? I'm not aware of any term for "person who doesn't like the fact they have small boobs" or "person who doesn't like that they have dark skin" but these are both things people are willing to undergo surgery for so they feel more comfortable in their body. Should we start calling people who change the size of their breasts "transmammary"?
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    I don't think so.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Why would it? I'm not aware of any term for "person who doesn't like the fact they have small boobs" or "person who doesn't like that they have dark skin" but these are both things people are willing to undergo surgery for so they feel more comfortable in their body. Should we start calling people who change the size of their breasts "transmammary"?
    probably not the breasts part but for the skin colour part you're looking either internalised racism or internalised colourism depending on the scenario, for example a black person who sees white people as superior and wishes they were white is internalised racism. An east asian person with darker skin than what western audiences would consider attractive, wishing they had lighter skin to appeal to said audience, would be internalised colourism.

    Also breast surgery could fall under the blanket of transgender for obvious reasons but you're missing the point, there doesn't HAVE to be a term for every specific thing, but society the way it is WILL make a term for the larger demographics because believe it or not "person who wanted to change their genitalia because of body dysmorphia" doesn't really have much of a ring to it
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    (Original post by Farlan)
    probably not the breasts part but for the skin colour part you're looking either internalised racism or internalised colourism depending on the scenario, for example a black person who sees white people as superior and wishes they were white is internalised racism. An east asian person with darker skin than what western audiences would consider attractive, wishing they had lighter skin to appeal to said audience, would be internalised colourism.

    Also breast surgery could fall under the blanket of transgender for obvious reasons but you're missing the point, there doesn't HAVE to be a term for every specific thing, but society the way it is WILL make a term for the larger demographics because believe it or not "person who wanted to change their genitalia because of body dysmorphia" doesn't really have much of a ring to it
    Neithet does "person who wanted bigger boobs so they could feel comfortable with themselves" but I've yet to hear a catchy buzzword for that, and I'd bet there's more of those than transgender people.
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    (Original post by Crassy)
    It's funny because the left claim there are no differences between men and women, but suddenly when a man thinks they are a woman or vice versa they have a "woman's brain"; that is their justification.

    "Transgenderism" can be cured with anti-psychotic meds, yet the left glorify it and encourage kids to take exogenous hormones before puberty to fundamentally alter their biology. Sick.
    "the left" isn't the only group in society that makes up or constitutes the population; I find it funny that you fail to mention the other groups in society that acknowledge its legitimacy.

    I don't consider "transgenderism" a word semantically speaking, instead of the phrase "the quality of being trans-gender", but people will dispute that.

    ""Transgenderism" can be cured with anti-psychotic meds"

    Have you got any sources to back that up, or have you just pulled that out of your backside?

    "to fundamentally alter their biology."

    You alter your biology all the time; I fail to see the relevance here.

    I do have issue with children being given hormone-replacement therapy, but I lack any authority in the subject matter because I haven't thoroughly researched the matter.

    But I find many problems with your post regardless.

    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    OP probably likely isn't referring to transsexualism here, but people who are comfortable with being their sex, but dress and behave as the opposite gender, or identify as 'gender fluid' or whatever.

    And the OP makes a fair point. If society decides that gender is an arbitrary, pointless social construct with no biological basis and decides to become androgenous, then most forms of transgenderism would suddenly lose legitimacy if gender ceased to be a real thing.

    Many LGTBQ activists argue that gender and gender roles are things that shouldn't exist as a masculine-femine, male-female dichotomy, but paradoxically they will support transgenderism and vigorously accept the situation where there are men who feel like women (or vice versa) and feel the need to dress and behave as the gender associated with the opposite sex.
    (I know you weren't asserting this but) gender isn't only a social construct; gender has biological bases, and these biological bases give rise to certain social constructs, which are perhaps then unfairly capitalised and built on.

    Edit: There might also be genetic factors to being trans-gender or having gender dysphoria, therefore continuing the existence of trans-gender people in this scenario.

    There might also be epigenetic factors; factors relating to gene expression. People often confuse the social aspect and the environment, when the social aspect is a sub-category of the environment. There is also epigenetics, gene expression, to account for. Just because there might be no gender roles in society so to speak, the environment (including the social aspect) in which we live would still affect gene expression, epigenetics, which might be a factor to being trans-gender or to gender dysphoria. This would be a largely a non-genetic factor. This would continue the existence of trans-gender people in this scenario. (/end of edit.)

    (Just saying my view on the matter; you gave me an opportunity to do so.)

    (Original post by Tsrsarahhhh)
    This is something I've been thinking about for a while now, I don't really bring it up in conversations tho in fear of being judged as ignorant so I'll talk about it here. Imagine if we lived in a society with no gender, just the two sexes male and female. There are no gender roles, eg certain clothing associated with a gender or different hair styles or roles associated with a gender, both have the exact same roles and act in the same way, nothing is expected of a person just because of their sex. Males and females are the same apart from biological differences like genetalia etc. Would we still have trans gender people? I know that this type of society is impossible but if it did exist what are your thoughts?
    So yes OP, because there are biological bases to gender, besides any social constructs, trans-gender people would still exist.
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    If gender didn't exist as a concept then I can't possibly see how someone could be transgender. I mean how could you not want to be something and want to be something else if those things didn't exist? It would be akin to me saying "I don't feel comfortable with myself as a unicorn and shall henceforth identify as a dragon".
    Although you are correct, OP said if gender didn't exist in society/in a societal context. Because there are biological bases to being trans-gender, gender would still exist because biological bases and social constructs are distinct separate things.
 
 
 
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