The Oxford Union- Yay or Nay?

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Peter_The_Great

Pete's Test: Is the Union value for money?
Value = ((Celebs + drinks + events + rentals - Hacking) x Free stuff) / Elections

1. Add together the number of a) celebrity speakers you’ve seen, b) drinks you’ve had in the Union bar, c) number of balls and social events you’ve attended, d) books or DVDs rented from the library, e) times you've played on the snooker tables.
2. Subtract from this the number of times you’ve hacked or been hacked for a vote.
3. Multiply the total by the number of times you’ve been to President’s Drinks, speaker dinners or other free events with booze. If you’ve never been to any, just multiply by 1.
4. Divide this by the number of times you’ve stood for election or been directly involved in the electoral process.

0 – 75: No value for money
75 – 125: Average value for money
125+: Great value for money

Let’s take Henry Fossington-Smyth, an ambitious Union hack. In his first year, Henry only attended a few debates with celebrities he recognised (+4) and borrowed nothing from the library (+0). He did, however, drink heavily in the bar for hacking purposes (+96) and duly attended every Union ball and some social events (+8). Being an ambitious hack, he himself hacked for votes on numerous occasions (-45), giving him a total of 63. He was invited to President’s Drinks roughly twice a term (x6). Nevertheless, he stood for election every term (/3) giving him a grand total of 126. Even at the end of his first year, Henry would conclude that the Union was great value for money.

On the other hand there’s Laura Brown, a first-year medic who only joined because all her friends were doing it. She saw quite a few celebrities in her first two terms but saw none in Trinity due to exams (+18). She had a few coffees in the Union bar (+12), borrowed some medical textbooks and a DVD from the library (+5) and went to one ball and a couple of other events (+3), but a friend in college asked for her vote every term (-3), giving her a total of 35. Not knowing any important Union hacks, she has never been invited to any events with free alcohol, but being a medic has also never had the time to stand for election. Her grand total is 35: Laura would feel that, at the end of her first year at least, the Union was not value for money, but it might be by the end of her degree.

Try it yourself!

You should submit that equation to the book Geek Logik which tries to quantify similar questions such as "Should I quit my job?" or "Should I go to the doctor?".

Reply 21

jbruner17

What about for people who want to competitively debate? Isn't that through the Oxford Union as well?

Reply 22

Crazy Mongoose

One large postscript which has not been added so far-

"Yay" if you are a involved, or will become involved, in competative debating

Because the union is a debating society first and foremost (or is supposed to be at any rate) the union pours a disproportionate amount of money into debating. You get to go to large, even world-wide competitions, with the union paying for your expenses, tickets and everything, all out of the membership money everyone else pays. And at the end of the union-held competitions they have huge amounts of alcohol waiting to be grabbed. And finally, it means you often get union contacts without ever being a 'hack' because for some reason hacks like to be told they are good debaters...

Reply 23

jbruner17

Crazy Mongoose

That's the coolest thing I've ever heard! Presently, I've been trying to debate the big national-level tournaments in the US but my parents only have so many frequent flyer miles and my school won't cover much. Also, who doesn't like free alcohol and contacts?

Reply 24

meef cheese

sixthirtythree

curious fact: Luke Tryl, the next Oxford Union President, is a TSR member

who?

Reply 25

Cirsium

Please tell me you're either not a Union member or you're kidding?
And hmmm didn't know that
Although so is Em, not that i've ever seen her on the boards

Reply 26

thomasjtl

its worth baring in mind what other stuff you think you:re likely to get involved with, too. I:ve never really used my union membership, cos although lots of the debates sound interesting, thursday nights are taken up with other things (church student nights), and that is when most of the debates happen.

Reply 27

Cirsium

True - I've had the same problem with OUPhil on a Wednesday and lots of the speakers (esp in my first year when it seemed every speaker was on a Wednesday) and I used to have rowing on a Thursday night... and so it builds

Reply 28

Carelesswhispers

I would say Union = def value for money, for one thing, where else can you get all these experiences?

I am not a hack or a socialite or public school, rather state school but have got my fair share's worth from the Union. I attend debates most weeks (and often pressy drinks after) have been to all the balls since I first went up to Oxford and have been to many of the speakers and other events. I use the bar a few times each term and PT lots and get a few books from the library each week. But, I still do loads in my college. Ok I have a fair few friends that are hacks/have stood in the Union so through them I got my money's worth.

But what irritates me most is when people moan about the Union and how poor value for money it is. If they could be bothered to go down to the Union once or twice and remove their blinkers surrounding the Union you may find the odd nice person down there, who isnt a hack. Stop moaning about it and just enjoy it!

Reply 29

Elles

_mad_moo_

But what irritates me most is when people moan about the Union and how poor value for money it is. If they could be bothered to go down to the Union once or twice and remove their blinkers surrounding the Union you may find the odd nice person down there, who isnt a hack. Stop moaning about it and just enjoy it!

I don't moan about the Union, that would be pointless - it's unlikely to change: I'd moan to my fresher self for having wasted my money & this is about advice for freshers so it's relevant.

I have been there once or twice, actually 4 times :eek:

(including to join!) - the people I went with were nice, but can't say I met anyone else who was. I haven't been deprived of Balls, speakers, Bars/clubs or books for not having used it - there are plenty of other sources of all these things in Oxford.

_mad_moo_

... have got my fair share's worth from the Union... (and often pressy drinks after)...Ok I have a fair few friends that are hacks/have stood in the Union so through them I got my money's worth.

4 Me, post

I imagine some do get their money's worth - say, in alcohol if an invite to Pres' Drinks finds its way to them... :wink:

Reply 30

jbruner17

Humor the American- Wikipedia and urbandictionary didn't have an answer for this:

What is "hacking"/"being hacked"?

Reply 31

LatinMachine

I would be happier if membership was £50 or so. What seems to happen is that loads of people join up, then it's a select few people who get involved with the debates/politics etc who get the most use out of the money that we've paid.

_mad_moo_

It's not about 'not being bothered,' it's about the fact that often you join before you get to Oxford, because you think it's 'the thing to do,' then you get there and you join something else which is actually more up your street. This is what happened to me - I'm now heavily involved with the Dancesport Club, and last term I was usually doing 4 nights or so a week of dancing, which didn't leave much time for hanging around the Union! Although me and my friend did meet there for cheap coffee every Friday which was nice :smile:

But if we weren't members we could easily have found somewhere else.

Reply 32

product

I'd agree with you Jen that the Union isn't for everyone, and you can't argue against it by saying that people 'aren't bothered' to go. But at the end of the day it really is pretty good value for money, for about £20 a term you get access to a pretty good library with dvd rental, a wide range of (sometimes amazing) speakers and debates, highly subsidised socials and balls, an ok cheap bar, etc... Also the Union is under financial pressures and could under no circumstances afford to lower its membership fees to around £50.

If you don't think you'll ever go then don't join. But constant Union bashing seems unfair and unwarranted. Yes, the hacks can be annoying at times, but then again you need people who work hard and care about the place to run it (this does not unfortunately apply to all of them).

Reply 33

Cirsium

Other advantages to the Union:
Nobody ever uses the library!
In all the times i've used it, the little room up the staircase has never had anybody in it, which makes it completely my own to use. And I've never tried to get out a book that somebody else has already got... Which is handy :wink:

Not that there are THAT many books I can't get from Zoo/Plants/the Hooke - but it has been known to happen that the only available copy of a book is in the Union

Reply 34

LatinMachine

The socials and balls aren't always to be raved about. Some socials sell out (such as a champagne, strawberries and jazz evening) then are rubbish anyway (most of my friends went, but I couldn't get a ticket - apparantly it wasn't very good anyway, the sequence of events was badly organised), and quite a few have to be cancelled due to lack of ticket sales. Balls cost around £40 anyway, the chocolate fountain always runs out in the first hour, the food disappears almost as quickly, although the cheap alcohol does flow through the night, and they all start early and end early (about midnight). I went to all three balls last year, but I don't know how many I'll go to this year. Maybe one, probably none. I'm going to save my money for college balls.

Reply 35

Cirsium

Well, you say that - the Snow Ball in my first year was only 25 (or possibly 30?) and I don't recall there being a lack of chocolate fountain! Or mince pies...

Reply 36

hobnob

PsychologyJen

Oh, you mean the champagne and strawberries came after the jazz? :biggrin:

Reply 37

LatinMachine

Bekaboo

Well, you say that - the Snow Ball in my first year was only 25 (or possibly 30?) and I don't recall there being a lack of chocolate fountain! Or mince pies...