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BREXIT: Personal Life Experiences that make you REMAIN or LEAVE.. Watch

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    Rakas21, and Drewski have been my most passionate critics of my REMAIN view.

    I am personally for remain because my 12 months in Finland:
    It Broadened my mind,
    helped my find a job when it was difficult in the UK,
    and gave me great memories that are important in a short life of just 80 years.

    So Rakas21 and Drewski and others what happened in your life to make you personally so passionately anti-EU? There must be something. You are so passionate, countering all my posts and yet I'm still non the wiser - what on earth happened to you both and others?
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Rakas21, and Drewski have been my most passionate critics of my REMAIN view.

    I am personally for remain because my 12 months in Finland:
    It Broadened my mind,
    helped my find a job when it was difficult in the UK,
    and gave me great memories that are important in a short life of just 80 years.

    So Rakas21 and Drewski and others what happened in your life to make you personally so passionately anti-EU? There must be something. You are so passionate, countering all my posts and yet I'm still non the wiser - what on earth happened to you both and others?
    Since this seems to be the first relatively sensible post by OP in a while, I'll be more than glad to encourage him with a reply. This post will be partly extracted from my previous thread.

    My family emigrated from Hong Kong in 2003 when I was 9 years old under the British Nationality Selection Scheme. My father was a senior manager at a telecoms company and since retired he became a full time investor. He lives in Hong Kong for most of his time to support the family, while my mother stayed in the UK to raise us. I am now studying at University and intend to stay in the UK in the future along with most of my family.

    As a child living and Hong Kong and now as an adult in the UK, I have been closely monitoring the progress of democracy in Hong Kong. I realised the importance of freedom and democracy, and the struggle many people had to endure to obtain it. I've also witnessed from first-hand experience how difficult it is to fight against the tide, when a central government refuses to let the citizens elect their own government.

    I am alarmed that the EU will continue to become federalised and we will reach a point of no return, when we can no longer maintain our laws and defend our ideals which the British people have fought so hard to obtain for centuries. This is why I am passionately pro-Brexit, I feel that it is my personal duty to defend our democracy and play my part in steering us away from an undemocratic political union. I am not optimistic that reforms will be made in the EU if we choose to remain and subject ourselves to this continuous trend of federalisation.

    Hopefully this can show you that we are just people with different backgrounds, there is no need to smear others just because we have different views regarding Brexit.
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    I'm not anti-EU.

    I'm anti undemocratic methods of ignoring the public's will.


    Fwiw I've worked in the EU longer than you have (no, not including within the UK), but despite EU guarantees on freedom of movement and freedom to work, I've been threatened with arrest in those countries for doing my job legally and with the correct qualifications.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    I'm not anti-EU.

    I'm anti undemocratic methods of ignoring the public's will.


    Fwiw I've worked in the EU longer than you have (no, not including within the UK), but despite EU guarantees on freedom of movement and freedom to work, I've been threatened with arrest in those countries for doing my job legally and with the correct qualifications.
    And did working in the EU broaden your mind? Give you some cash etc?
    I'm not too sure, from reading this, why you don't want your children to be allowed to work in the EU but you yourself were. Its all a bit unclear. Sorry
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    Since this seems to be the first relatively sensible post by OP in a while, I'll be more than glad to encourage him with a reply. This post will be partly extracted from my previous thread.

    My family emigrated from Hong Kong in 2003 when I was 9 years old under the British Nationality Selection Scheme. My father was a senior manager at a telecoms company and since retired he became a full time investor. He lives in Hong Kong for most of his time to support the family, while my mother stayed in the UK to raise us. I am now studying at University and intend to stay in the UK in the future along with most of my family.

    As a child living and Hong Kong and now as an adult in the UK, I have been closely monitoring the progress of democracy in Hong Kong. I realised the importance of freedom and democracy, and the struggle many people had to endure to obtain it. I've also witnessed from first-hand experience how difficult it is to fight against the tide, when a central government refuses to let the citizens elect their own government.

    I am alarmed that the EU will continue to become federalised and we will reach a point of no return, when we can no longer maintain our laws and defend our ideals which the British people have fought so hard to obtain for centuries. This is why I am passionately pro-Brexit, I feel that it is my personal duty to defend our democracy and play my part in steering us away from an undemocratic political union. I am not optimistic that reforms will be made in the EU if we choose to remain and subject ourselves to this continuous trend of federalisation.

    Hopefully this can show you that we are just people with different backgrounds, there is no need to smear others just because we have different views regarding Brexit.
    But leaving the EU will give us less democracy not more.
    How? you ask

    I reply:
    More than like we will have to accept some stuff from the EU as part of the leaving process. Had we stayed we could have voted against these things.

    For example, many people in the UK were against Turkey joining the EU.
    If the UK leaves its more likely that Turkey will get in (because we will not block their entry).

    If we have free movement the net result of Brexit will be millions Turks arriving
    legally into the UK.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    And did working in the EU broaden your mind? Give you some cash etc?
    I'm not too sure, from reading this, why you don't want your children to be allowed to work in the EU but you yourself were. Its all a bit unclear. Sorry
    Where have I said any of that?

    Where have I ever even said how I voted?



    You continuously, endlessly, monotonously and really quite boringly continue to put words in my mouth that simply have never existed. You make things up that are simply not the case. And when we pull you up on it, you ignore us. Why?

    You won't answer these questions, I'm well aware of that, but I'm just doing it to point out the hypocrisy to everyone else. You want me to answer questions but you never answer them yourself.

    I've never I've declared how I voted. And I'm not going to. Its irrelevant.

    My argument with your threads is not your pro-brexit stance, it's your anti-democratic stance. It's your willingness and eagerness to ignore that democratic process. To say that your opinion is more important than anyone else's. I can't and won't ever agree with that and nothing you write about the benefits of membership of the EU will trump that.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    Rakas21, and Drewski have been my most passionate critics of my REMAIN view.

    I am personally for remain because my 12 months in Finland:
    It Broadened my mind,
    helped my find a job when it was difficult in the UK,
    and gave me great memories that are important in a short life of just 80 years.

    So Rakas21 and Drewski and others what happened in your life to make you personally so passionately anti-EU? There must be something. You are so passionate, countering all my posts and yet I'm still non the wiser - what on earth happened to you both and others?
    Lets give you a different perspective of why i voted out. I have saw my area become infiltrated, In 2005 when i was growing up and was in Primary school my estate was cohesive, everyone spoke English- There has always been different races on the estate which I do not mind as long as they can speak moderate levels of English and they can accept and take part of our Western values. Fast Forward to 2015/2016 very few people on my estate can now speak English, with the area I live in being a very poor area a lot of it is council housing which means the tenant turnover is very high meaning that all of these migrants we have opened the door to now need somewhere to live, so the Migrants are put in spare council houses and because there is a lot on my estate (council houses) unfortunately we took a huge number of migrants, not many of them can speak very good English and have no interest in our way of life- walking around my estate and my nearest home towns is like a lesson of modern foreign languages. So Immigration defined my vote but there are also other things which i do not like about the EU.

    Now lets go to the costs, we sent £ 35.6 million pounds to the European union a day, this is unsustainable and as you talk about the European Union creating jobs that may well be true as i support the free trade with the European Union but i do not support the free movement of people and with the membership costing a net total of £13bn a year and all My community seems to be getting is immigrants from it. The money we save from the EU we can invest in infrastructure to get the economy moving again creating more wealth and jobs and eventually employment will go up at a steady rate, where as the EU has many factors and if demand dries up some of the jobs can be lost, this could happen if a country goes into recession and doesnt have the same demand for your exports.

    We will remain to have tariff free trading with the European Union, and I will now explain why- It was reported by the Office for National statistics that we have a trade deficit of £23.9bn which was reported in may 2016, this was covering the period of Jan-Mar 2016, This was reported in the Guardian but the Office for national statistics backs this figure up, If we are buying £23.9Bn from the European Union then we are selling there, it is quite evident for me that we are one of the EU's key trading partners. If you go down to table 6 of this document which shows "Change in UK monthly trade with significant partner countries, March 2016 compared with February 2016" It will show you in our top ten trading partners which are importing from Germany ( we import £5247M) , Netherlands which we import (£2775 Million per month from) Then We have France who we buy £2108 M of our imports from, Belgium who we buy £1800 Million a month from, Italy who we buy imports of to the value of £1388 from, Spain who we buy imports of the value of £1342 Million per month from, Ireland who we buy imports to the value of £1054 Million per month from and last but not least Norway who we buy £1033 Million per month of imports from.( Here is the link https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/natio...hical-analysis)

    In total we import £16,878 per month, I know this will differ from month to month but at least I have put some cold hard facts out, I will also tell you we export 10299 Million, If the European Union becomes difficult and plays hard ball with us, we can stop importing from Europe and Stop Exporting to Europe, whilst this will make our economy slightly weaker there is other countries we can do trade deals with , but if we stop importing from the EU the EU nations will lose a lot of money, this will have a negative impact on their economies because companies in other countries will have less of a market to sell to and we import a lot of goods from the EU meaning the businesses will contract in European countries, employees will lose there jobs and a recession may be caused, the people may become very angry at this and then they will put pressure on there government to call referendums, a lot of other countries will inevitability leave and the EU will have a total collapse. From those figures for every 61 pence we sell to the EU we spend £1.00 in the EU it will have a bad influence if they refuse free trade without free movement, it will hurt the EU more than it will hurt us. If they do not come to an agreement with us we can set our tariffs higher then theres and then it will annoy them and they will give in because we spend more on them then they spend us.Even if we pay tariffs we will be better off it has been reported that it may be 12% for our EU tarrifs for exporting.

    In conclusion is there anything good about the EU?
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    But leaving the EU will give us less democracy not more.
    How? you ask

    I reply:
    More than like we will have to accept some stuff from the EU as part of the leaving process. Had we stayed we could have voted against these things.

    For example, many people in the UK were against Turkey joining the EU.
    If the UK leaves its more likely that Turkey will get in (because we will not block their entry).

    If we have free movement the net result of Brexit will be millions Turks arriving
    legally into the UK.
    This is really your own expectation. Given that free movement was one of the main issue for the leave side, I would not predict that this will be a possible bargaining chip for the EU because this would grossly cross the bottom line of negotiation. I believe there are limited conditions that the UK will accept in order to trade tariff-free in the single market, however it would not include policies which formed the foundation of the Brexit argument.

    Also I must say, given the recent 'coup' in Turkey and the treatment of the alleged opposition, the chance of it joining the EU is now likely to be thin. It would only take 1 member state to veto the process to stop Turkey from joining.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    This is really your own expectation. Given that free movement was one of the main issue for the leave side, I would not predict that this will be a possible bargaining chip for the EU because this would grossly cross the bottom line of negotiation. I believe there are limited conditions that the UK will accept in order to trade tariff-free in the single market, however it would not include policies which formed the foundation of the Brexit argument.

    Also I must say, given the recent 'coup' in Turkey and the treatment of the alleged opposition, the chance of it joining the EU is now likely to be thin. It would only take 1 member state to veto the process to stop Turkey from joining.
    We will retain access and not agree to freedom of movement see my post for the reasons why.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    This is really your own expectation. Given that free movement was one of the main issue for the leave side, I would not predict that this will be a possible bargaining chip for the EU because this would grossly cross the bottom line of negotiation. I believe there are limited conditions that the UK will accept in order to trade tariff-free in the single market, however it would not include policies which formed the foundation of the Brexit argument.

    Also I must say, given the recent 'coup' in Turkey and the treatment of the alleged opposition, the chance of it joining the EU is now likely to be thin. It would only take 1 member state to veto the process to stop Turkey from joining.
    the one member thing no longer exits, I think its more of a majority now (not totally sure it applies to new member states - but generally its a majority, single state blocking anything is a thing of the past)
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    (Original post by MyBloodisBlue)
    Lets give you a different perspective of why i voted out. I have saw my area become infiltrated, In 2005 when i was growing up and was in Primary school my estate was cohesive, everyone spoke English- There has always been different races on the estate which I do not mind as long as they can speak moderate levels of English and they can accept and take part of our Western values. Fast Forward to 2015/2016 very few people on my estate can now speak English, with the area I live in being a very poor area a lot of it is council housing which means the tenant turnover is very high meaning that all of these migrants we have opened the door to now need somewhere to live, so the Migrants are put in spare council houses and because there is a lot on my estate (council houses) unfortunately we took a huge number of migrants, not many of them can speak very good English and have no interest in our way of life- walking around my estate and my nearest home towns is like a lesson of modern foreign languages. So Immigration defined my vote but there are also other things which i do not like about the EU.

    Now lets go to the costs, we sent £ 35.6 million pounds to the European union a day, this is unsustainable and as you talk about the European Union creating jobs that may well be true as i support the free trade with the European Union but i do not support the free movement of people and with the membership costing a net total of £13bn a year and all My community seems to be getting is immigrants from it. The money we save from the EU we can invest in infrastructure to get the economy moving again creating more wealth and jobs and eventually employment will go up at a steady rate, where as the EU has many factors and if demand dries up some of the jobs can be lost, this could happen if a country goes into recession and doesnt have the same demand for your exports.

    We will remain to have tariff free trading with the European Union, and I will now explain why- It was reported by the Office for National statistics that we have a trade deficit of £23.9bn which was reported in may 2016, this was covering the period of Jan-Mar 2016, This was reported in the Guardian but the Office for national statistics backs this figure up, If we are buying £23.9Bn from the European Union then we are selling there, it is quite evident for me that we are one of the EU's key trading partners. If you go down to table 6 of this document which shows "Change in UK monthly trade with significant partner countries, March 2016 compared with February 2016" It will show you in our top ten trading partners which are importing from Germany ( we import £5247M) , Netherlands which we import (£2775 Million per month from) Then We have France who we buy £2108 M of our imports from, Belgium who we buy £1800 Million a month from, Italy who we buy imports of to the value of £1388 from, Spain who we buy imports of the value of £1342 Million per month from, Ireland who we buy imports to the value of £1054 Million per month from and last but not least Norway who we buy £1033 Million per month of imports from.( Here is the link https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/natio...hical-analysis)

    In total we import £16,878 per month, I know this will differ from month to month but at least I have put some cold hard facts out, I will also tell you we export 10299 Million, If the European Union becomes difficult and plays hard ball with us, we can stop importing from Europe and Stop Exporting to Europe, whilst this will make our economy slightly weaker there is other countries we can do trade deals with , but if we stop importing from the EU the EU nations will lose a lot of money, this will have a negative impact on their economies because companies in other countries will have less of a market to sell to and we import a lot of goods from the EU meaning the businesses will contract in European countries, employees will lose there jobs and a recession may be caused, the people may become very angry at this and then they will put pressure on there government to call referendums, a lot of other countries will inevitability leave and the EU will have a total collapse. From those figures for every 61 pence we sell to the EU we spend £1.00 in the EU it will have a bad influence if they refuse free trade without free movement, it will hurt the EU more than it will hurt us. If they do not come to an agreement with us we can set our tariffs higher then theres and then it will annoy them and they will give in because we spend more on them then they spend us.Even if we pay tariffs we will be better off it has been reported that it may be 12% for our EU tarrifs for exporting.

    In conclusion is there anything good about the EU?
    that really isn't a personal experience that is a load of waffle. D-
    What school do you go to?
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    that really isn't a personal experience that is a load of waffle. D-
    What school do you go to?
    A s**t One full of Migrants and it was the kiddy fiddler ted heath to blame, The first parrograph is the rest is an attack on pro EU people.
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    the one member thing no longer exits, I think its more of a majority now (not totally sure it applies to new member states - but generally its a majority, single state blocking anything is a thing of the past)
    It still exists. However I would argue for your case that a veto does not always translate practically into what it should be, as the EU is a political union and is capable of exerting political pressure on countries which go against its agenda. Given the recent event in Turkey, it is now much more politically acceptable to veto Turkey's membership.

    Does the UK have a veto (link) ?

    Yes. Under the EU’s rules for the accession of new countries, approval of each member country in the Council of the European Union is required.If accession is unanimously approved, an applicant country must then get the agreement of each existing member on the ‘conditions of accession’. Professor Damian Chalmers describes the process as a ‘double veto’.
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    (Original post by MyBloodisBlue)
    A s**t One full of Migrants and it was the kiddy fiddler ted heath to blame, The first parrograph is the rest is an attack on pro EU people.
    That sort of comment should be banned
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    (Original post by FredOrJohn)
    That sort of comment should be banned
    it is fundamentally accurate though.Ted Heath took us in with no vote at the tine, Wilson gave us a vote in 1975 where my parents voted leave even back then, he was a kiddie fiddker but conveniently died before being tried for it. my school had a whjte British population of 52 percent so was full of immigrants and was sht because it got special measures in an ofsted inspection
 
 
 
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