Onica
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#1
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#1
Hi!

So growing up I have always wondered that why do some individuals succeed and why do others fail in the education system? I guess my interest in wanting to go into teaching was due to my experience in the education system. I went to a school that was under-performing, and although I thrived and did well, I was always concerned about those, formerly my peers, who were unable to succeed in the education system. I was always concerned about the inequality that existed in our education system because it can be argued that some have more economic and cultural advantage in comparison to others. I also questioned whether our education system is effective in promoting social mobility. I have an offer for History and Sociology to study at the University of Warwick and hope to go into teaching after my degree. However, I have a few questions about this profession as some say it's not the best profession to go into.

Question 1

I've heard a lot of negative news about the hours that teachers work, some saying that it's ridiculous- is this true?

Question 2

How is the salary compared to other professions like Pharmacy for example. Looking at the pay scales, the starting salary is 22k and the pay increase in incremental each year. Also, do you need to have at least 6 years' experience in order to apply for head of department roles and head of year role?

Question 3

What routes can you take for training that will include a salary while you train to get your PCGE? It says that the route via school direct ( salaried), you must have full-time work experience at least 3 years. However, I won't have this as I'm a student and only have part-time experience so how would I be able to apply for this route?


I've also been thinking of doing a law conversion course (GDL) and then the L PC exams if this does not seem to be a good profession. Do you think it would be a wise decision and do you get funding in a form of bursary and scholarship for conversion courses for law? Has anyone done a law conversion course before?? Just curious


Sorry it's long but I'm just not sure if it's a good profession due to the negative things people have said. Thanks
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sulaimanali
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#2
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#2
I think teaching is a good profession, but one that is definitely not treated fairly or equally as other professions.
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sulaimanali
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#3
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You see..giving an education to someone..passing on knowledge..is a very good act and thus it should be highly rewarded...as compared to someone who kicks a ball around a field of astro turf for 90 mins to be paid however many times £100k.
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sulaimanali
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#4
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#4
You can argue that the working hours are quite hectic and ridiculous..you work normal hours (8:30am-3:30pm) and then you have to spend evenings, weekends, holidays marking all sorts of work. You have to get to school on time in the busy traffic and its hard to have a good nights sleep with all the heavy workload in the evening.
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sulaimanali
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#5
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The starting salary is quite low and it increases as time goes on but most teachers don't get this 50k or 60k or 70k wage job.
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Pierson
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#6
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#6
Q1. It depends on the expectations of the school, how well you manage your time, your role within the school but, yes, the hours are long.

Q2. There are better paid jobs but there are also worse paid jobs. No-one goes into teaching for the money. Pay rises are no longer automatic but instead subject to meeting performance targets. Yes, it is possible to become a department head at any point in your career.

Q3. A part-time job is unlikely to meet the criteria for the salaried School Direct programme; it is primarily targeting career changers. The Teach First programme, on the other hand, also offers a salary and specifically seeks high-quality graduates.

Teaching is a good profession if you are passionate about educating children. There are a great deal of challenges involved and only those who enjoy teaching children are likely to find it fulfilling. Doing some volunteer work in a school is the best way to ascertain whether it is the right career for you.
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Joinedup
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Onica)
Hi!



How is the salary compared to other professions like Pharmacy for example. Looking at the pay scales, the starting salary is 22k and the pay increase in incremental each year. Also, do you need to have at least 6 years' experience in order to apply for head of department roles and head of year role?
I heard an anacdote about someone successfully applying for head of science immediately after NQT year... they were a career-changer with previous management experience and no one else applied.

so afaik there isn't a rule against it, but it's probably pretty unlikely.
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1secondsofvamps
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#8
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#8
I think it's a good career. I'm planning to go into primary teaching and I'm really looking forward to it. I personally love being around young children and find it rewarding to help them learn.
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Onica
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#9
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#9
(Original post by sulaimanali)
You see..giving an education to someone..passing on knowledge..is a very good act and thus it should be highly rewarded...as compared to someone who kicks a ball around a field of astro turf for 90 mins to be paid however many times £100k.

Hi,

Yes, I would love to help students succeed and know it's rewarding and I've always been interested in education. I'm not trying to sound greedy, but it's unfair that after many years of study, pay is little. I know pharmacy is a completely different degree and years of study, but for example, my cousin will hopefully qualify as a pharmacist next year, and will be on 30k ish, while I'm on 22k and slowly working my way up.

I also don't know what else I can do with a History and Sociology degree, but I know I'm interested in education. It's just unfair how the teaching profession isn't valued much!
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Onica
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#10
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#10
Hey,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it seems as if teachers are not respected compared to other professions. Also, I didn't know that you don't need a degree to become a teacher. I thought that it's required to have at least a 2.2 and a 2.1 or above tobe considered to training programmes like Teach First.
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Onica
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#11
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#11
Ah, that sounds a bit reassuring. I know the salary depends on location, but I would like to earn well after the years of study as it's hard work. I'm not trying it sound greedy.

Well I hope I get into Warwick, but I will only know when I get my results. If not, then it's my insurance, Essex University which is ranked well although not aRussell Group uni. However, I am really interested in education and would love to make a difference!

I've also been interested in social policy research in education, but I don't know how you get into that.
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Pierson
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#12
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#12
I can only assume that this amazing teacher is a headteacher because only they are paid salaries as high as that. There are just over 1200 headteachers who are earning salaries above £100k and they are primarily experienced headteachers or executives who tend to oversee multiple schools. I don't think there are any headteachers as young as 29/30 who fit that bill, so I think some wires may have been crossed there...

Pay is also increasingly dependent on the subject you teach. Those who start with higher salaries than the minimum for an NQT will be teachers of shortage subjects such as the sciences, maths, MFL and computing. Subjects like English and History are also shortage subjects but to a lesser extent than the sciences and maths, so the salaries won't start as high. Whilst it is certainly possible for a teacher to begin earning £40k within 3 years, it isn't the norm. It happens when a school is having trouble recruiting and retaining good staff. If you are working in an area where there is a good supply of teachers in your subject, you won't be zooming up the pay scale as quickly as that.

(Original post by Onica)
Ah, that sounds a bit reassuring. I know the salary depends on location, but I would like to earn well after the years of study as it's hard work. I'm not trying it sound greedy.

Well I hope I get into Warwick, but I will only know when I get my results. If not, then it's my insurance, Essex University which is ranked well although not aRussell Group uni. However, I am really interested in education and would love to make a difference!

I've also been interested in social policy research in education, but I don't know how you get into that.
A keen interest in education might not translate into a passion for teaching children. As I said above, the only way to ascertain whether teaching is the right career for you is to spend some time volunteering in a school. There are easier jobs with higher pay out there than teaching, so it's a profession that should only be entered if you are sure that you could cope with the challenges involved and still enjoy the job.
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Vav Sartrean Po
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#13
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#13
You get excellent holidays, and basically live in Academia all of your life (staying in school for the rest of your life, what GCSE student would have dreamt of that?!)
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fefssdf
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#14
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#14
I plan to be a maths teacher and the pay issue doesn't really bother me as teaching provides excellent job security, amazing holidays and the chance to actually see how your work is rewarded through the grades your students receive and I can't think of anything much more satisfying than that. Can't wait to get more school experience during uni and apply for something like teach first after
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fefssdf
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#15
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#15
Well I have offers for maths so I should be off to do a maths degree this September ; woop and oh haha I did psychology alevel but have no intention of teaching it cause it's mostly just memorising studies which requires little effort of the teacher whereas maths you have to actually think aha !
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Airfairy
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Onica)
Hi! * *

Question 1

I've heard a lot of negative news about the hours that teachers work, some saying that it's ridiculous- is this true?

Question 2

How is the salary compared to other professions like Pharmacy for example. Looking at the pay scales, the starting salary is 22k and the pay increase in incremental each year. Also, do you need to have at least 6 years' experience in order to apply for head of department roles and head of year role?

Question 3

What routes can you take for training that will include a salary while you train to get your PCGE? It says that the route via school direct ( salaried), you must have full-time work experience at least 3 years. However, I won't have this as I'm a student and only have part-time experience so how would I be able to apply for this route?


I've also been thinking of doing a law conversion course (GDL) and then the L PC exams if this does not seem to be a good profession. Do you think it would be a wise decision and do you get funding in a form of bursary and scholarship for conversion courses for law? Has anyone done a law conversion course before?? Just curious


Sorry it's long but I'm just not sure if it's a good profession due to the negative things people have said. Thanks

Q1 - Yes. It is often said it is a lifestyle, not a job. I think this is accurate. You have to be willing to put a lot of your own time in.

Q2 - I personally think it's very poor and not comparable to other professions given the amount of work that goes in. I feel the pay does not reflect my effort or stress levels.

Q3 -

Yeah so there's salaried SD which it sounds you're ineligible for. There's also Teach First graduate scheme which you could apply for with History.
*
I don't know anything about law (besides it being wildly competitive so you'll want a first class degree for a start). *

*
(Original post by THE EPIC Panda)
Those who can do. Those who can't, teach.
Don't be an ignorant ass who obviously has no understanding of how difficult the career is.*
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Airfairy
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#17
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#17
Maths or Psychology...

Hmm, one has massive job security and a very attractive training bursary. The other offers no job security nor training bursary. I know which I'd be going for!!*
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nerdling_CompSci
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#18
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#18
Its a good security profession, my dream is to marry a teacher as I think she will be the best mom ever.



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username738914
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#19
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#19
(Original post by Onica)


I've also been thinking of doing a law conversion course (GDL) and then the L PC exams if this does not seem to be a good profession. Do you think it would be a wise decision and do you get funding in a form of bursary and scholarship for conversion courses for law? Has anyone done a law conversion course before?? Just curious


Sorry it's long but I'm just not sure if it's a good profession due to the negative things people have said. Thanks
You can't just willy nilly bounce between law and teaching, if you're serious about law I would get stuck into researching and networking - now.

If you play your cards right and apply to the various schemes available to you at undergrad, you could get a legal training contract from a firm willing to pay for all of the gdl and lpc as well as provide a living stipend.



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fallen_acorns
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#20
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#20
Honestly, having worked in education ever since graduating, never as a teacher in the UK - but I have worked with schools in the UK, and am constantly in contact/dealing with teachers, I would always second the recomendation of:

Try it.

To many people just presume they will both be a good teacher, and actually enjoy it.. becuase of some ******** justification of:

'Its so rewarding...' 'I am passionate for helping people' blah blah.

--

Maybe you are, maybe you are not, but there is a lot more to teaching then being passionate and finding it rewarding. No chance you are thinking 'this is so rewarding' when you have a couple of horrors ruining your well laid plans, and your tired from marking until late.. your stressed because of the huge amount of bureaucracy that goes into your job, and the crazy targets your boss is setting for you.

I would recomend to all who are interested in education to do a number of the following:

Volenteer in a school, for a minimum of a few weeks, preferably giving a bit of time each week for a whole term/year.

This will give you a good picture of school life, but it wont show you what its like to be a teacher. Volenteering will always have you as an assistant, a 2nd. To truely understand what its like to lead, and realise if you are actually any good at it.. I would say that its essential you find some way of putting yourself in a position of leadership:

For example, my sister, before becoming a teacher took over a cub group. She had 20 11-12 year old boys to manage, plan for, control etc. once a week for a year.. That was much more valuable to her then just watching other people teach, as it actually taught her and let her experiance leadership.

Mentoring younger students, private tuition, working with a nursery, volenteering at a youth centre, scouts, cubs, guides, brownies, church groups etc. all types of things that can help you experiance planning, organisation, control and leadership.

---

The problem with teaching is that everyone thinks they can do it, but actually most people cant. The good news is that it has amazing job security, so even if you cant, its unlikely you will be forced out! But seriously, anyone can get to the level of study required to teach, but having the actually ability to excel in front of a big class is something different.

There is money in the career though for the best of the best.. you just need to think outside the standard school system.. once you have experience there are lots of options open, from colleges, to private education, to language schools, international educational programs, universities, community programs, and much more.. you just need to be prepared to think of education as a large industry, and not just individual schools.
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