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    This forum came in as blessing and disguise. thanks a lot for wealth highly credible information.I am writing this for my daugther. My daughter is a US citizen and we settled in india. she wanted to practise as a Lawyer in US. In india, we have BA+LLB which is a five year degree. TheN cominging to US do a 3 year JD+1 LLM may be a needed l with slim chance of getting a good job in US. Lot has been said of unemployment in US for laywers, expensive JD, and only california and NY alone takes foreign degree holder.Our choice is to do a law degree in UK (3 year or 4 year) and we are not sure which one to take. I had looked at the forums on UCL, durham etc. Option 1: 5 year india + 3 year JD + 1 year LLM (she can skip JD for NY,CALI)Option 2: 3 year law in UK+3 year JD +1 year LLM. does she need 4 year law in UK (16 year eduction reqmt in US)I am assuming she can skip doing JD in US if she takes UK routePlease advise. We do not have any visa issues in US.We are fully confused.thanks a lotsrini
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    Ok - I've recruited mainly in the UK but have had some experience of the US recruitment system and have attended recruitment events in the US.

    The LLM is not necessary whatever route you take. If you want to take the US direct route, the JD is the qualification you really need - the LLM doesn't really add more to it beyond that.

    A non-US law degree and then a LLM wouldn't really be competitive if you are looking for an entry role in the US. Most firms in the US will want to see the JD and you will be competing against a lot of candidates with that.

    Remember you will also need to do the state bar exam for which ever state you want to work in too.

    Yes, you could take the UK route, do a three or four year LLB (it doesn't really matter which), the LPC (a year) and then a training contract for 2 years to qualify in England and Wales. You could then work as a UK qualified lawyer in the US - your ability to work in the US is a major benefit there. Most people who do this transfer with the firm they are working for on a secondment of anywhere between 6 months and a few years. Anyone who is on a longer secondment tend to take the state bar exam when they are out there are cross qualify.

    Unless you have the right to work in the UK too, then there is a challenge of finding a firm who is willing to support you with a work permit for the training contract. There are enough firms out there who do but the majority of them are high-end corporate/commercial firms. The process is still competitive in the UK - maybe not as competitive as New York, but is still challenging mainly where the UK firms have very high expectations.

    Those with LLMs in the US are usually recruited to return to their home country (where they did their law degree) rather than in the US. When I was in New York recruiting LLM students, it was for international offices across Europe and Asia, and specifically to recruit Chinese and Indian nationals for the London office. The New York office weren't interested in anyone unless they had a JD and their CV was outstanding.


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    Thanks.
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    Thanks a lot J-SP. This really helps and clears all the confusion on this subject. We were struggling to get the right information till now.

    On followup inquiry on 3 year LLB. Do i need to ascertain that whether 15 years education alone is sufficient to attempt for JD in US. Or does my daughter need to do something extra to be eligible for JD. i could not get much info on US universities.

    My daughter is on 'A' grade candidate and not an A+. So not sure whether combined LLB + JD law would work for her. There is also limitation of only 2 seats per university and it is for only non-americans. We are also not looking at TOP UK universities for LLB. Entry requirement and fee issue might be hard for us in UCL, Durham and KCL . I know she need to keep a Good GPA for applying to JD.

    Any suggestions and advise. This would be last inquiry on this J-SP
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    I don't know enough about the US education system entry requirements to be able to comment on that.

    It depends really what you mean by a good university in the UK though. Most of the universities that law firms in the UK target will have significant fees for non-UK/EU residents. Which universities are you looking at?

    The benefit of going to a higher ranked university is generally the support you get outside of the curriculum. Higher ranked universities tend to have better/more varied sports/societies, better careers advice and their law faculties tend to get more financial support in sponsorship from firms. All these things help prepare their students for the career and make it a little easier for then student to be well informed and connected to those in the industry.

    As a student you are also more likely to be surrounded be fellow students who are also aiming for the same career. Although it can be sometimes counter productive in terms of over competitiveness, generally having like minded people around you also helps inform your career choices.

    Also getting on to a decent JD course in the US is likely to be impacted if you go to a low ranked university in the UK. But it really depends on which universities you are looking at based on cost and grade entry requirements.





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    we are in early stage of our discovery phase, and not sure. Durham, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Birmingham on similar lines. Not sure if UCL, KCL is up for grabs based on her expected grades and such. We are little away from that. All depends on her LNAT and her grades in school. We will start applying starting from september for joining the programme in sep-oct 2017.

    Thanks a lot
    srini
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    (Original post by srini234)
    we are in early stage of our discovery phase, and not sure. Durham, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Birmingham on similar lines. Not sure if UCL, KCL is up for grabs based on her expected grades and such. We are little away from that. All depends on her LNAT and her grades in school. We will start applying starting from september for joining the programme in sep-oct 2017.

    Thanks a lot
    srini
    From a recruitment perspective in the Uk, those all are good universities to go to.

    However, you need to be aware the universities in Scotland will provide Scottish law degrees while English universities will provide English law degrees.

    There is a difference and they are two different legal jurisdictions. If you are looking at potentially taking the "UK" route via a training contract then you need to think carefully whether this will be in Scotland or England/Wales. Given the majority of international firms with a presence in the US are based in London, you may want to think about pursuing an English law degree. Otherwise you will need to take some modules of the Graduate Diploma in Law (GDL).

    It's a common mistake many international students make, often where the costs of studying in Scotland might be cheaper. Some of the Scottish universities do allow their students to take English law modules though, so check whether this is the case and then the GDL might not be needed.


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    Thanks. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. For now we are surely looking for anything below grade of UCL, KCL, Durham etc purely on academic marks if not fees. We will try for decent LNAT score (heard UCL grading based on essay, KCL based on objective questions).
    If we she gets a decent grade, along with some level of decent LNAT score we might try something different.

    Through UCAS we will try 2 LNAT based UNIV, might pick up few from the below list (after your feedback) Would any of the university from the below list do you suggest
    - Portsmouth
    - SUSSEX
    - Exeter
    - oxford brookes
    - southampton
    - surrey (*)
    - Birmingham (*))
    - Queen Marty (somewhere i read it over rated)
    - Plymouth
    - Birmingham city
    - aston
    - Royal Holloway
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    Out of that list you provided, here is how I would group them:

    Exeter
    Birmingham
    Queen Mary

    All these universities are targeted significantly by most major law firms. Firms will spend money targeting their students, running careers events with the university and sponsoring their law society. Queen Mary is slightly under rated in my opinion - its reputation at a master level for international arbitration is particularly strong for instance.

    Southampton

    Pretty much as the first category, just slightly less campus activity.

    Aston
    Sussex
    Surrey
    Royal Holloway

    Very ad-hoc careers events. Firms are not likely to spend significant amount of money to attend careers events, but may run an event there if it's free/fits into their campus schedule conveniently.

    Portsmouth
    Oxford Brookes
    Plymouth
    Birmingham City

    I never attended these universities as a recruiter. Regional firms might, but these firms are less likely to meet your requirements (less likely to support a work permit/less likely to have an office in the US).

    Let's put it this way, from the first two categories, I can count numerous trainees I recruited from those universities. I can count a very small number from the third category (maybe 3-4 out of 100s over more than a decade). I can't ever recollect recruiting anyone from the final category, but apart from a handful of applicants from Oxford Brookes, I don't think I even saw any applications from the other three.




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    Thanks J-SP. Are there any universities inbetween
    (UCL, Durham) vs (Birmigham,Exeter). I had looked at Birmigham and Exeter and support structure is not as good as UCL and Durham. I know i am learning through this. Might take some time
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    Warwick is a good, non- LNAT university
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    Yes - there are plenty of others. You might want to look at the following (I've excluded others you have already mentioned).

    York
    Warwick
    Leeds
    Manchester
    Nottingham
    Bristol

    You could also look at Sheffield and Newcastle, City and SOAS.



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    J-SP et all

    I did bit of further research on this. I traveled to London and edinburgh earlier. My daughter hasn't travelled very much. So, obviously i look for uuniversities close to london, less cold, with medium-large indian students, societies, with mixture of LNAT and Non-Universities. Plus i base my aassumption on times/.sunday times ranking .

    https://www.timeshighereducation.com...versities-2016

    When i go through the above criteria and my daughters expected grade (7.5-8.5 in a scale of 1 to 10) , these are lists of universities possibly she can get. So, i am discounting others for now

    1. Nottingham vs Durham (Possibly nottigham with more society, some level of support system)
    Grade Requirement - 8.5 and above, LNAT. May be tougher.
    2. Warwick vs Exeter (Warwick, I it is very competitive, closer to london, possibly more to do with US association, and no LNAT score)
    Grade requirement - 8.5 and above, No LNAT

    Exeter - May be i can ignore it for now
    3. Surrey - close to London, May be they be flexible with grades.
    Grade requirement - 8.5 and above, nO LNAT
    4. Southampton - Grade requirement 7.5 and above. Safe zone as an insurance
    - No LNAT
    I prepared this based on LNAT scores and mixture of relaxed grade requirements for indian students. That is the reason i haven't chosen UCL and KCL. What is published in the website on grade requirement is lesser than when i spoke to one of university representative. Not sure which one to believe. I haven;tt chosen Bristol , Birmigham for the reason that LNAT is required.

    i am not sure which of the university has flexible policies. I see Notinggham has flexible policies and at the same time i see lot of rejections. What would be criteria in case of LNAT and school grades come below the expected one. Warwick - what do they look for in a person.

    Are there any other universities i missed out that i should look for.

    Thanks a lot

    Can you please review my above comments and add additional inputs
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    If you are going to look at rankings, I would look more closely at the rankings for law as a degree subject rather than the university overall. There are some highly ranked universities where there law faculty isn't ranked highly and vice versa.


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    sorry J-SP, I was sick last 2 days and came to work today. Thanks for the info. I am look at some schools with are decent in rankings and below Warwick and Exeter, where the admission have flexible policies. I do not have time rankigs for law.
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    (Original post by srini234)
    sorry J-SP, I was sick last 2 days and came to work today. Thanks for the info. I am look at some schools with are decent in rankings and below Warwick and Exeter, where the admission have flexible policies. I do not have time rankigs for law.
    I am not a big fan of rankings as they are slightly deceptive (strong focus on academic/research qualities).

    But these might help you if rankings are important to you:

    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...rankings?s=law

    http://www.theguardian.com/education...-table-for-law



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    I loved that article to another indian student on TCs and Tier-2 Visas . Especially thread 13
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3895335

    I need an insurance in case my daughter didn't progress further after 3 year law degree. Thanks for the details info. You are doing a massive job in helping people especially parents not connected to legal and law. Cheers
 
 
 
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