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Did we lose Hong Kong because of EU membership? watch

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    We lost the like of India because of Hitler and the war. No changing that.
    We gave away Hong Kong, seemingly without a fight, in '97.
    I'd like to find out why, and I now really rue EU membership and am wondering if the fact our hands were tied, meant that we couldn't hang on to Hong Kong...
    More broadly, what will be the future of Hong Kong, they have a certain amount of devolved autonomy, but surely had that under us. Will they want full independence? Would the international community help them, or please China?
    And here is a pipe dream, with a UK outside the EU, could we incorporate them again, given our historical links?

    And this is a separate point, but I was amazed to find this about Jamaica-

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...er-colony.html

    Jesus we could have some of the empire back if we really wanted it. I guess tbh we'd rather have HK than Jamaica though, because of prosperity and safety.
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    Oh I guess this could be moved to international..

    And on the topic of our former colonies generally...

    I just read this about Indian rule. A bit saddening, got rid of my illusions.


    For most of the Indians who feel english and aping the west is correct and superior should look at the below statment by Lord Maculay to British Parliament in 1835. Then you would understand why we always consider the values of the west superior on account of brainwashing for generations. "I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation." PS: There is a debate on whether the correct year was 1833 or 1835, but what matters for Indians is the statement itself. Less..
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    You lost India becayse it got bored of being under UK rule and decided funnily enough that it wanted to be an independent nation.
    You gave back Hong Kong because the lease ran out and you were not entitled to govern it any more.
    Without a fight? Youd have veen prepared to go to war with China over HK?

    Why would EU membership have anything to do with HK? Explain.

    HK is Chinese, they have some tolerated freedoms, but China is the master by a long way. Whether they wnat independence or not, they will not get it.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    We lost the like of India because of Hitler and the war. No changing that.
    We gave away Hong Kong, seemingly without a fight, in '97.
    I'd like to find out why, and I now really rue EU membership and am wondering if the fact our hands were tied, meant that we couldn't hang on to Hong Kong...
    More broadly, what will be the future of Hong Kong, they have a certain amount of devolved autonomy, but surely had that under us. Will they want full independence? Would the international community help them, or please China?
    And here is a pipe dream, with a UK outside the EU, could we incorporate them again, given our historical links?

    And this is a separate point, but I was amazed to find this about Jamaica-

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...er-colony.html

    Jesus we could have some of the empire back if we really wanted it. I guess tbh we'd rather have HK than Jamaica though, because of prosperity and safety.
    If you want to go to war with Mainland China, sure.
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    We had an agreement with China that leased Hong Kong to us for 99 years. That ended and we ceased control of Hong Kong to China. CGP Grey has a video on it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piEayQ0T-qA < Believe this is the one.
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    It was only on a 99 year lease, we handed it back because the lease expired.
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    Can anyone explain where the EU comes into being blamed for this?
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    (Original post by A Mysterious Lord)
    It was only on a 99 year lease, we handed it back because the lease expired.
    Think of it as like when a retailer takes out a lease on a shop unit and then when the lease expires, they close that store down because they don't want to renew the lease. :yes:
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    maybe the citizens of hong kong should of been given a vote to stay with britian or independence seems like they prefer britian anyway .
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Oh I guess this could be moved to international..

    And on the topic of our former colonies generally...

    I just read this about Indian rule. A bit saddening, got rid of my illusions.


    For most of the Indians who feel english and aping the west is correct and superior should look at the below statment by Lord Maculay to British Parliament in 1835. Then you would understand why we always consider the values of the west superior on account of brainwashing for generations. "I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such calibre, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self-esteem, their native self-culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation." PS: There is a debate on whether the correct year was 1833 or 1835, but what matters for Indians is the statement itself. Less..
    This is utterly disgusting
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    (Original post by lawlieto)
    This is utterly disgusting
    I know. It's one thing to go to some place and think people are barbaric and backwards and then say whatever goes, collateral. But to praise a civilization and show hw valuable it is and then install that as policy, just makes me sick. It wasn't even in the UK's long term national interests to do it, either. I used to view the link romantically but not when you find out more.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    You lost India becayse it got bored of being under UK rule and decided funnily enough that it wanted to be an independent nation.
    You gave back Hong Kong because the lease ran out and you were not entitled to govern it any more.
    Without a fight? Youd have veen prepared to go to war with China over HK?

    Why would EU membership have anything to do with HK? Explain.

    HK is Chinese, they have some tolerated freedoms, but China is the master by a long way. Whether they wnat independence or not, they will not get it.
    How many there speak English, can you get by there with only English? I'm interested in going.
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    If 60% of Jamaicans think they are better off under the UK, would it be worth it? Should we take them back? Might be a re-announcement of British intent.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    How many there speak English, can you get by there with only English? I'm interested in going.
    Some speak English but not very well. It's mainly Cantonese.
    When i was there it was fairly easy to communicate because they all know a bit of broken English.
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    Blame the EU? Incorporate Hong Kong back into the UK?

    Were you on the sauce when you wrote this post?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Can anyone explain where the EU comes into being blamed for this?
    :dontknow:
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    Vladimir Putin as Hitler.....D-U-H.
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    In actual fact, the UK never 'owned' Hong Kong, it was more of a lease.

    Under British rule, HK became China's primary trading port to the rest of the world. It was convenient because China wanted the prosperity from world trade, but refused to allow western ideologies to infiltrate its politics.

    The handover negotiation at one point escalated to suggestions that China would take HK back by force if the UK refuses to return the islands. China had already became a significant world power at that time so the UK had no choice but to accept the handover, knowing that it would fall under Communist rule. The UK government did however allowed 50,000 households to apply for its British Nationality Selection Scheme, which is a point-based scheme offering British Nationality to HK professionals. My family was amongst those eligible and successfully applied.

    As part of the handover negotiation conditions, China agreed to allow HK autonomy until 2047 under a system called 'One country, Two systems'. However this does not mean HK is free from Chinese control. HK's Chief Executive is elected by an election committee which includes 35 industry sector representatives, most with extensive trading interests with China. There is no law prohibiting external funding for political parties, which means pro-Beijing parties are usually well funded and able to 'buy' votes in constituencies. The HK government had also abandoned a merit-based appointment system for its civil service, and opted for a non-transparent recruitment process.

    HK people are against Chinese infiltration but there is nothing they can do. The systems are not there to serve them, but to act against them. The umbrella movement attracted sympathy from international communities for a while, but in reality nobody really cares. Nobody believes that the Chinese government will bend its will for HK, in fact not even the HK people believes that. The resistance we've witnessed is just a by-product of the hopeless struggle against a tide that is too big to turn. Very soon everyone will forget about this piece of HK history and accept it as a normal part of China.

    I hope I have given some contexts about HK history and its current state (without sounding too depressing).
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    I'd just like to clear up something: We did NOT have a 99-year lease on Hong Kong.

    Okay, we did but we didn't. Let me explain: On half of Hong Kong we had a 99-year lease on. The other half we owned outright. By the time the lease ran out 1997 Hong Kong, was so interconnected and small that we decided 'No point damaging Hong Kong by splitting it up into two even smaller countries, let's just give it all to China'. and that's vaguely what happened.
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    Answer to OP's question: EU was irrelevant to HK's handover. Nobody really cared then, and nobody cares now.
 
 
 
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