Muslim and starting to doubt my religion

Original post by chemting

Wikiislam is now being administered and operated by EMNA (Ex-Muslims of North America)

It may have had some issues in the past, but they are working on cleaning them up.

It would probably still have a bit of an "anti-Islam bias" but I guess everything that's not from Harun Yahya or quranisverybeautifulandamazing.com would be 'anti-muslim' you :h:

Besides, they list all their sources, which come from Islamic literature...

One cannot correct articles without it being considered pro-Islam (even if it is academically more correct), and therefore they remove edits of their wiki articles. It is just a compiled list of refuted claims without their refutations. I will be interested to see how this changes over these next few years.

Reply 243

chemting

16

Original post by Zamestaneh

One cannot correct articles without it being considered pro-Islam (even if it is academically more correct), and therefore they remove edits of their wiki articles. It is just a compiled list of refuted claims without their refutations. I will be interested to see how this changes over these next few years.

Does sheikh al-munajjid of IslamQA list all the refutations of his claims in his articles?

Reply 244

Original post by The Epicurean

In Islam, any Tom, Dick and Harry can't make up his own interpretations. What scholars actually support this interpretation of yours?

Was this meant to be intentionally ironic? And if you read my post properly, you would have realised it was just some reflections on the matter, not a scholarly position, but perhaps that went over your head? I have read that Ibn Qayyim has a different opinion on the matter, though essentially he is guessing too since, as I said, there is no actual clear reason provided in the hadith or the Quran. I haven't read into the hadith in depth enough to know the opinions of multiple scholars beyond him.

Reply 245

Original post by chemting

Does sheikh al-munajjid of IslamQA list all the refutations of his claims in his articles?

Unless it is related to miracles (for which posting the refutation is pointless as a miracle is supernatural by definition) or the existence of Allah, then what claims are there to actually be refuted?

Reply 246

The Epicurean

17

Original post by Zamestaneh

Was this meant to be intentionally ironic? And if you read my post properly, you would have realised it was just some reflections on the matter, not a scholarly position, but perhaps that went over your head? I have read that Ibn Qayyim has a different opinion on the matter, though essentially he is guessing too since, as I said, there is no actual clear reason provided in the hadith or the Quran. I haven't read into the hadith in depth enough to know the opinions of multiple scholars beyond him.

Would it not be more wise to withhold your opinion than to comment on and mislead people over something you have not read up upon? There is nothing to reflect upon. Either you are stating a factual interpretation supported by scholars, or you are inventing new interpretations. There is no room for every Tom, Dick and Harry to come along and "reflect" upon Hadith and introduce their own innovative interpretations to fit with their own moral outlook.

Reply 247

Original post by The Epicurean

Would it not be more wise to withhold your opinion than to comment on and mislead people over something you have not read up upon? There is nothing to reflect upon. Either you are stating a factual interpretation supported by scholars, or you are inventing new interpretations. There is no room for every Tom, Dick and Harry to come along and "reflect" upon Hadith and introduce their own innovative interpretations to fit with their own moral outlook.

Ah, so it was meant to be a sarcastic and ironic. The difference is that because it isn't a clear matter, there is no Ijmah on it, whereas when you create your interpretations, you try to do it on clear matters where there is ijmah, and you also say your interpretation in a way where it should be believed and practiced. A further difference is that I am saying that 'perhaps it could mean XYZ', only offering thoughts without affirming my reflections as someyhing that I actually believe to be true, rather I say it without rejecting nor believing it, reserving its true meaning to Allah - much how like people come up with reasons why Muslims fast (beyond because Allah orders it). If you wish to point out irony or hypocrisy, as least do it correctly - what I have said and the way I have said it is not similar to what you do.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 248

Original post by Zamestaneh

Wikiislam - really? If that is the quality of academic research you used, no wonder you lost your faith...

If you had ever objectively assessed WikiIslam, you would know that it is mostly verbatim quotations from the Quran, hadith, classical tafsir and Ibn Ishaq. There is actually very little commentary or opinion (it is not needed as the texts speak for themselves!).

Basically, if you want to know the Islamic position on any issue (based on original and classical sources rather than modernist apologists) it is a reference of sources. They even provide a link to academic/Islamic sites for those who may doubt the veracity of the quotes on WikiIslam.

Criticising WikiIslam as a source is like criticising a library as a source. It is merely a means of arriving at a particular piece of original material.

On the other hand, most of the Islamic sources that are deemed "acceptable" are mostly opinion pieces, where a modernist apologist spends several pages explaining why the Quran and hadith don't mean what they actually say. The plain textual souces are often the same ones linked to by WikiIslam.

Seriously, the "Ooh, WikiIslam is so biased and anti-Islam, you can't use it" argument is laughable when you consider that the Islamically acceptable sites are entirely partisan and subjective.

And can you explain why "pro-Islam" sites are any more trustworthy than "anti-Islam" sites? Especially in the context of what each side stands to lose if disproved. (Just in case you aren't sure...
If the anti-Islam argument fails, we lose nothing but gain salvation as we would surley convert - if Allah stops misguiding us, of course!
If the pro-Islam argument fails, you lose your faith and your religion is confirmed as medieval mythology - not to mention all the cushy jobs of the imams and scholars. As Deep Throat said..."Follow the money".)

Reply 249

Original post by Zamestaneh

Oh, okay, I have also read up on it now... my personal reflection is that it isn't a bad thing for girls and perhaps could be seen as beneficial even - people see that 2 sheep are being sacrificed and get vexed that only 1 is slaughtered for a girl; I would be happy that Allah has equated the single sheep of a girl to two of a boy, showing perhaps that she is more valuable rather than less. These are just my thoughts, but no one knows the true reason why there is that difference.

So, in an Islamic context, the less attention you show someone or something, the more important it is.

I guess Allah and Muhammad must be pretty insignificant in the islamic scheme of things then?

Reply 250

FCB

3

Original post by QE2

If you had ever objectively assessed WikiIslam, you would know that it is mostly verbatim quotations from the Quran, hadith, classical tafsir and Ibn Ishaq. There is actually very little commentary or opinion (it is not needed as the texts speak for themselves!).

Basically, if you want to know the Islamic position on any issue (based on original and classical sources rather than modernist apologists) it is a reference of sources. They even provide a link to academic/Islamic sites for those who may doubt the veracity of the quotes on WikiIslam.

Criticising WikiIslam as a source is like criticising a library as a source. It is merely a means of arriving at a particular piece of original material.

On the other hand, most of the Islamic sources that are deemed "acceptable" are mostly opinion pieces, where a modernist apologist spends several pages explaining why the Quran and hadith don't mean what they actually say. The plain textual souces are often the same ones linked to by WikiIslam.

Seriously, the "Ooh, WikiIslam is so biased and anti-Islam, you can't use it" argument is laughable when you consider that the Islamically acceptable sites are entirely partisan and subjective.

And can you explain why "pro-Islam" sites are any more trustworthy than "anti-Islam" sites? Especially in the context of what each side stands to lose if disproved. (Just in case you aren't sure...
If the anti-Islam argument fails, we lose nothing but gain salvation as we would surley convert - if Allah stops misguiding us, of course!
If the pro-Islam argument fails, you lose your faith and your religion is confirmed as medieval mythology - not to mention all the cushy jobs of the imams and scholars. As Deep Throat said..."Follow the money".)

You can't reason with fanatics.
They will disregard any evidence that even slightly compromises their beliefs, yet blindly agree with anything that reaffirms them. It is why religion still exists.

Few things are a bigger waste of time than trying to convince a fanatic that he is wrong. If virtually omnipotent aliens arrived at Earth tomorrow and told us all how we were created by them as a way of colonizing the galaxy, then religious fanatics would still refuse to disregard the Koran, or whatever other silly books they read at bed-time.

So many people believe they need a 1,000+ year book to tell them how to be a good person. That is what I truly find heartbreaking about modern society.

If someone needs an ancient book with archaic/sexist rules to tell them how to be a good person, or needs the fear of death/God to behave, then they are not a good person in the first place.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 251

Anonymous #13

Original post by Anonymous

I was born and raised Muslim. The faith has a lot of good things about it.

However recently, I am starting to have doubts. I'm not as religious as I used to be. Particularly being a female, I find some parts of Islam extremely sexist.

For example women have to cover up, men can take up to 4 wives, Muslim women must only marry Muslim men, underage girls are allowed to marry as soon as start puberty ,women aren't allowed to leave the house without a male relative, women will make up the majority in hellfire because they are ungrateful to their husbands , sex slaves are permissible during war, woman's testimony often counts half of a man's testimony, women inheritance half that of a man, a woman must always obey her husband etc.

But I've read up on all the above and I do appreciate some of them give good reasons as to why. But one thing I can't get over is the fact our prophet Muhammed (pbuh) married Aisha (r.a) when she was only 6 years old. The reason I've heard include those were the times it happened a lot then, She contributed to the spread of Muhammad's(pbuh) message and served the Muslim community for 44 years after his death, the marriage not being consummated until she had reached puberty at the age of nine or ten years old etc. It's really hard for me to overlook.

But seriously if some joe public did that everyone would find it disgusting. What makes it a problem for me is that men are meant to follow the sunnah of the prophet. This means it's ok for Muslim men to take underage bride. It happens a lot in Afghanistan, Pakistan etc.

I'm just starting to lose my faith a little and it is mostly to do with its attitude towards women.

LOL there are so many reasons for those things like have you not read about Islam properly doesn't sound like you have and in the end of the day if you doubt Islam so much you can leave lol the door is open take a hike

Reply 252

FCB

3

Original post by Anonymous

LOL there are so many reasons for those things like have you not read about Islam properly doesn't sound like you have and in the end of the day if you doubt Islam so much you can leave lol the door is open take a hike

The majority of Muslims believe the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death.

How anyone can believe in anything that promotes such archaic ideas is beyond my comprehension. You're more than welcome to spend the entirety of your short time on Earth restricting yourself and living a sheltered/close-minded life, but don't take an aggressive attitude with people who actually have the capacity to think for themselves and question things.

edit:
I can't stand it when a Muslim says 'Have you read about Islam? You don't like it therefore you mustn't have read about it enough!'. I can spend all day reading about conspiracy theories, it doesn't make them any more true/valid...

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 253

DorianGrayism

19

Original post by Anonymous

No it isn't true, those who believe so have been misguide by Salalfis and Islamophobes. Islam does not permit "Sex slaves", but (historically) servitude with conditions, with the easing of lust of those in servitude being permitted. .

Oh.....so you are doing them a favour? How you about....no slavery in the first place.

Reply 254

chemting

16

Original post by Zamestaneh

Unless it is related to miracles (for which posting the refutation is pointless as a miracle is supernatural by definition) or the existence of Allah, then what claims are there to actually be refuted?

well, any assertion/claims he makes can be, in theory, refuted... specially if it is erroneous...

Reply 255

Original post by Zamestaneh

It is just a compiled list of refuted claims without their refutations.

I'm guessing that this is the Islamic definition of "refuted"?

Refute (v. Islm): To arbitrarily claim "context"; to present a contradictory passage; to cry "ignorant" or "Islamophobe". - OED

Reply 256

Original post by ApplyYourself

Narrated Usama bin Zaid: The Prophet said, "After me I have not left any affliction more harmful to men than women."Sahih Bukhari 7:62:33

This is not an attack on women, rather it is acknowledging that women are a temptation for men and also may influence men a lot thereby. Due to the influence women have over men, it can thus either be harmful or good.

Narrated 'Aisha: The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."Sahih Bukhari 1:9:493

https://islamqa.info/en/214748

In short: it is not saying that women are like donkeys and dogs, rather it is saying that the 3 have the common attribute of being a distraction during prayer.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." Sahih Bukhari 1:6:301

http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/women_not_deficient_in_intelligence_and_religion.htm

In short: the full hadith and context does not state that women are less intelligent, rather they have less responsibilities given to them by Allah related to intellect and religion.

Read the links provided as these explain better and more academically than I could.

Reply 257

chemting

16

Original post by QE2

I'm guessing that this is the Islamic definition of "refuted"?

Refute (v. Islm): To arbitrarily claim "context"; to present a contradictory passage; to cry "ignorant" or "Islamophobe". - OED

(PRSOM)

Original post by QE2

OED

haraam mate, dictionary of the kuffar... it should be Medinan Arabic Dictionary (MAD)...

Reply 258