English "class system"- do you believe in it?

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_tobi_coker07_
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#41
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#41
at the moment im working class. i do believe in the class system, but i dont think people should be judged by it.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#42
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Most people don't want to change social classes, regardless of opportunities they get to. Think I'm the exception: north east state schooler, happy to have left it all behind, now loving London's trendy wine bar high life.
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an Siarach
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#43
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
A QC is not upper class, a QC would be upper-middle class. The only true 'upper classes' are the aristocracy so the old class system is a closed model in that respect.
I was referring to classes in the context of work. The extremes i didnt take into account as they make no positive contribution to society as such - namely the very low i.e welfare frauds and the very 'high' which is to say the aristocracy. In a professional context a QC is upper class.
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d750
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#44
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(Original post by 4Ed)
that's true.

so how many generations does it take for a clan to start from working class, and reach the established upper class?
answers on a postcard please
One.
Fortunately.
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an Siarach
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#45
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#45
(Original post by _tobi_coker07_)
at the moment im working class. i do believe in the class system, but i dont think people should be judged by it.
I dont believe people should be judged by it no, especially not the class system as it was traditionally percieved, which is to say your social background is important rather than your personal qualities or achievements.
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Muse
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#46
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#46
(Original post by an Siarach)
I was referring to classes in the context of work. The extremes i didnt take into account as they make no positive contribution to society as such - namely the very low i.e welfare frauds and the very 'high' which is to say the aristocracy. In a professional context a QC is upper class.
hmm..which model of class system are you using? I've not familiar with a demographic model where they cluster the top socio-economic group into the phrase "Upper Class".

the SEC classification of social classes into I (professional) - V(unskilled manual) is much more worthwhile when considering trends.

in my eyes, the old term 'upper class' is still reserved for the aristocracy. QCs are 'Social Class 1' or 'Professional'.
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4Ed
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#47
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(Original post by Jools)
Most people don't want to change social classes, regardless of opportunities they get to. Think I'm the exception: north east state schooler, happy to have left it all behind, now loving London's trendy wine bar high life.
that's true. most people never change their habits or interests. take for example the many working class lottery winners...
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4Ed
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#48
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#48
(Original post by an Siarach)
Well in theory anyone could be born into the lowest type of welfare leeching family and be part of the upper class before they hit 30, thanks to our education/university system.
and would all the children of the person be automatically upper class as well ?

or do they have to work up their own reputation.
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an Siarach
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
in my eyes, the old term 'upper class' is still reserved for the aristocracy. QCs are 'Social Class 1' or 'Professional'.
I make a point of not considering the old class system as it was based solely on your social background/upbringing. As i previously stated i dont consider the two extremes of society(Aristocracy and those who live off the state) as fitting into the Working-Middle-Upper framework for the simple reason that they do not work and thus make no contribution to society as such. There is far too large a gap between a QC and a teacher for them both to be considered middle class, although i agree that within the frameworks of the old system the aristocracy are the upper class while a QC would be considered Upper Middle class.
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an Siarach
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(Original post by 4Ed)
and would all the children of the person be automatically upper class as well ?

or do they have to work up their own reputation.
Reputation? i dont see how that comes into it. As i state your class is dependant upon your profession, i myself could claim to be middle or upper middle class if i were to judge such things on familial background, however i judge 'class' on the achievement of the person in question not of their parents or ancestors.
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Muse
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#51
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#51
(Original post by an Siarach)
I make a point of not considering the old class system as it was based solely on your social background/upbringing. As i previously stated i dont consider the two extremes of society(Aristocracy and those who live off the state) as fitting into the Working-Middle-Upper framework for the simple reason that they do not work and thus make no contribution to society as such. There is far too large a gap between a QC and a teacher for them both to be considered middle class, although i agree that within the frameworks of the old system the aristocracy are the upper class while a QC would be considered Upper Middle class.
that's fine, but why use the old frame-work and not the new social stratification which actually has boundaries, is calculated in the census and doesn't have ambiguous terms?

as you've just based classes on terms of socio-economic status, then surely it is tenuous to fit this scale onto one which many people still believe relies fundamentally on social background. that's why they developed a new one.

some jobs lie very closely between what is considered 'working' and 'middle class', that's why using a socio-economic basis on a traditional class system is nonsensical.
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an Siarach
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#52
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
that's fine, but why use the old frame-work and not the new social stratification which actually has boundaries, is calculated in the census and doesn't have ambiguous terms?
Simply because im not aware of the new system of which you speak, and the older one is rather simple for purposes of explanation.
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Muse
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#53
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#53
(Original post by an Siarach)
the older one is rather simple for purposes of explanation.
maybe for the un-informed :rolleyes:
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an Siarach
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#54
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
maybe for the un-informed :rolleyes:
indeed!
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Muse
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#55
(Original post by an Siarach)
indeed!
by automatically placing QCs into the 'upper classes', i take it you want to be a lawyer..
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4Ed
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#56
(Original post by an Siarach)
Reputation? i dont see how that comes into it. As i state your class is dependant upon your profession, i myself could claim to be middle or upper middle class if i were to judge such things on familial background, however i judge 'class' on the achievement of the person in question not of their parents or ancestors.
so are all children classless to begin with?

so how would self employed successful businessmen be classed.... in some ways that is what the likes of Prince Charles is, with his Duchy range of food etc. it is hard to categorically judge a class based on profession alone...
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an Siarach
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#57
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
by automatically placing QCs into the 'upper classes', i take it you want to be a lawyer..
Nope.
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an Siarach
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#58
(Original post by 4Ed)
so are all children classless to begin with?

so how would self employed successful businessmen be classed.... in some ways that is what the likes of Prince Charles is, with his Duchy range of food etc. it is hard to categorically judge a class based on profession alone...
I would consider children 'classless' yes. As to the self employed it becomes harder to define.
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Muse
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#59
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#59
(Original post by 4Ed)
so are all children classless to begin with?

so how would self employed successful businessmen be classed...
Socio-economic Class II
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4Ed
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#60
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(Original post by timeofyourlife)
Socio-economic Class II
so can you outline ur classes and who they represent..... that sounded like a type of tank to me
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