What would a Europe without political correctness look like?

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FriendlyPenguin
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#1
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Edit: Sorry, wrong thread
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TercioOfParma
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It would be a much less radical place in terms of ideas, and people would be able to speak their minds. That is all I can really say with any certainty.
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RayApparently
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Most people who complain about 'political correctness' just want to be openly bigoted without being judged. It's not a problem. There is still a rigorous and open exchange of ideas in Europe and the developed world. Real censorship and the effective abolition of opposing views can be found in China, to a lesser extent Russia and in parts of the less developed world.
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Life_peer
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It would be smashing. No feminist ********, no SJW, no safe space, etc. Men would be men, women would be women, and people wouldn't be prosecuted for banalities. Arguments? The 20th century.
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RayApparently
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
So you think PC is just a term for being polite?

Politeness is simple to define, it's being nice to people, treating them pleasantly and respectfully. Political Correctness is harder to define, but it is easier done with examples.

It is PC to say that there are too many white people in certain jobs and places, but that's hardly polite.
It is equally impolite to be rude to a black person as a white person, yet the former is usually more politically incorrect (unless the white person trumps the black person in the game of PC top trumps, e.g. being a disabled transgender).

Political Correctness spans a very wide spectrum, from completely reasonable requests to be addressed in a pleasant manner, to fairly unreasonable accusations of prejudice, because we make a split second assumption about sex, race, sexuality, nationality, religion, disability, education, or just about anything else.

You might even say that it is Politically Correct to deny the existence of Political Correctness.
I don't think PC is a term for very much at all. I think it's a phrase used by some people to shut other people up because they can't construct an argument. In the same way that some people call others 'racist' to shut down a debate on immigration. "Oh, well you would say that because you're racist/politically correct"

I don't think saying there are too many people of any race in a certain job would be very 'politically correct'. It also wouldn't be 'politically correct' for anyone to insult anyone.

The fact that you can say that shows how farcical it is. However I'm not and never did deny that political correctness exists. In the same way I wouldn't deny that racism exists. I said that political correctness, unlike racism of course, isn't a problem.
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
I'm interested to hear your opinions, and arguments supporting them
Watch some of the comedy from the 80s (Bernard Manning). Imagine having signs outside hotels saying no blacks/Irish
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Well, we have places (mostly 'equality' conferences tbf) that say 'no white men', isn't that pretty similar?

E.g.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wh...ence-2pxg8wsgv
Look I despise lefty academia snowflakes as much as the next person but they are not comparable, not even close in which a country with out political correctness.

Political correctness to me is just not being a ****. Not long a go it would be common to see people with mental health problems called *******s and have the piss taking out of them right to their face.

No one is hurt if the snowflakes want to insulate themselves into some special bubble of their own bad thoughts.

This is a good piece
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/h...l-correctness/
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oShahpo
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How exactly is political correctness pervasive in Europe?
I mean, I can think of three topics which will be shut by political correctness, racial superiority and intelligence, the holocaust and women history and intelligence.
If there was no political correctness, you'd be able to talk about those things on television without fear of being fired. However, if you think about it, talking about those three things is not going to lead to anything but explicit and astounding offence and harm to women, other races and Jews. So it's not really worth it. Even with PC, you can still discuss those issues in books or specialised places.

Anything else is not really political correctness. Yea if you turn out to be homophobic people are likely to stay away from you, but that's because you hold a stupid opinion. Other than that, it's all "twitter wars", but who cares about people on twitter, or the professionally offended as I call them? Who cares what they think?
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
I'm interested to hear your opinions, and arguments supporting them
Well, almost by definition political correctness taints people's ability to think pragmatically, so it would be more pragmatic, which is by definition a good thing.
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username2512877
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It would pretty much look like the racist, controversial, exclusionist continent it secretly is. Well, I only half mean that, but the day-to-day routine would see some interesting changes I would think..
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Profesh
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Platopus
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No more feminazis!
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username521617
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(Original post by RayApparently)
Most people who complain about 'political correctness' just want to be openly bigoted without being judged. It's not a problem. There is still a rigorous and open exchange of ideas in Europe and the developed world. Real censorship and the effective abolition of opposing views can be found in China, to a lesser extent Russia and in parts of the less developed world.
People should be free to be as bigoted as they like without (legal) repercussions. But this isn't the case in many European nations. Say something unfavorable about Muslims or immigrants on social media, and you might have the authorities at your door. Deny the Holocaust, and you could potentially face arrest.

Even if it seems downright stupid or despicable, people should still have the right to say these things. The US has a better model when it comes to free speech and political censorship. But Europe still has one foot in the 19th century with these authoritarian attitudes.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Profesh)
I find Stewart Lee, really, really disingenuous.
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Chakede
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like mid 1970s britain id imagine
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RayApparently
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(Original post by Dandaman1)
People should be free to be as bigoted as they like without (legal) repercussions. But this isn't the case in many European nations. Say something unfavorable about Muslims or immigrants on social media, and you might have the authorities at your door. Deny the Holocaust, and you could potentially face arrest.

Even if it seems downright stupid or despicable, people should still have the right to say these things. The US has a better model when it comes to free speech and political censorship. But Europe still has one foot in the 19th century with these authoritarian attitudes.
Freedom is valuable for the results it produces, it is not intrinsically valuable. I have no problem with holocaust denial being illegal in Germany (it isn't here in Britain).
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Caius Filimon
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
So you think PC is just a term for being polite?

It is PC to say that there are not enough non-white people (or equivalently, too many whites) in certain jobs and places, but that's hardly polite.
It is equally impolite to be rude to a black person as a white person, yet the former is usually more politically incorrect (unless the white person trumps the black person in the game of PC top trumps, e.g. being a disabled transgender).
It is polite to hold a door open for a lady, but we're creeping towards this act becoming seen as an act of oppression against women ("You think women can't open doors themselves? You evil white male!" and thus not PC.

Manners might compel you to refrain from speaking a particular opinion, but PC is now against facts. If facts are deemed to be non-PC, then PC is a form of censorship.

Political Correctness is the act of tailoring speech to focus more on not offending than conveying anything of substance, and taking offense to the use of certain words without regards to the context.

PC is related to the 'Social Realism' of the USSR, except instead of sending political dissenters to the gulags, they are ostracised by calling them 'bigots', 'fascists', 'islamophobes', etc., and through these means much political discussion can be stifled.

Certainly worse censorship exists in communist China and backwards Russia. However, the existence of a worse system doesn't justify the existence of our system.
Backwards Russia? Backwards in what sense, exactly? I find it funny when people take every chance to sling mud at Russia and China

(Original post by RayApparently)
I don't think PC is a term for very much at all. I think it's a phrase used by some people to shut other people up because they can't construct an argument. In the same way that some people call others 'racist' to shut down a debate on immigration. "Oh, well you would say that because you're racist/politically correct"

I don't think saying there are too many people of any race in a certain job would be very 'politically correct'. It also wouldn't be 'politically correct' for anyone to insult anyone.

The fact that you can say that shows how farcical it is. However I'm not and never did deny that political correctness exists. In the same way I wouldn't deny that racism exists. I said that political correctness, unlike racism of course, isn't a problem.
#1 According to a new Army manual, U.S. soldiers will now be instructed to avoid “any criticism of pedophilia” and to avoid criticizing “anything related to Islam”. The following is from a recent Judicial Watch article

#2 The Obama administration has banned all U.S. government agencies from producing any training materials that link Islam with terrorism. In fact, the FBI has gone back and purged references to Islam and terrorism from hundreds of old documents.

#8 The University of Minnesota – Duluth (UMD) initiated an aggressive advertising campaign earlier this year that included online videos, billboards, and lectures that sought to raise awareness about “white privilege“.

#9 At one high school down in California, five students were sent home from school for wearing shirts that displayed the American flag on the Mexican holiday of Cinco de Mayo.

#17 All over the country, the term “manhole” is being replaced with the terms “utility hole” or “maintenance hole”.

#20 All over America, liberal commentators are now suggesting that football has become “too violent” and “too dangerous” and that it needs to be substantially toned down. In fact, one liberal columnist for the Boston Globe is even proposing that football should be banned for anyone under the age of 14.


http://thetruthwins.com/archives/20-...g-over-america

Definitely not an objective source, of course, but it shows how PC can definitely be an issue. Besides, it is all linked in the article.

Likewise, I suggest you actually document yourself on what you're trying to defend. Try and have a look at the youtube channels Shoe0nHead and especially Thunderf00t and see there how PC can be poison.

I'm all for politeness and the end of racism, but dismissing the current trend in PC, (the bad, more extreme sort especially; not just the use of 'african american' rather than 'black' but that where proper facts are being ignored due to them being considered racist, even if true) which is becoming ever more prevalent, is very foolish and speaks of a lack of knowledge in the area.

If there still is relative poverty in the UK, for example, that doesn't mean the problem of racism should be ignored because relative poverty is subjectively more important. In the same way, even if PC might be of less importance to some than the diminishing of racism, it doesn't mean that PC should just be ignored. Although I'm sure we're on the same page with that.

Political correctness can easily reach a point, and I think already has in many countries in many areas of debate, where it becomes proper censorship, which has the knock on effects of facts not being taken into consideration because they are considered racist, again, despite them being true or at the very least thoroughly researched.

I think you don't exactly understand what people who are against PC think of when they say PC. You might have a different understanding of what PC is.
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Nirvana1989-1994
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It'd be fantastic for the people that embraced it to be racist, sexist etc.
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In other words I'd know for certain who was an idiot that needed to be avoided.
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user382
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Europe is fantastic. The EU is awful.

So pretty good.
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username521617
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(Original post by RayApparently)
Freedom is valuable for the results it produces, it is not intrinsically valuable. I have no problem with holocaust denial being illegal in Germany (it isn't here in Britain).
That makes no sense at all. Freedom of speech is a principal that remains necessary regardless of the 'value' of what's said. Even something has no value at all, so what? One might as well ban anything that isn't productive or insightful.

And anyone who values liberty should have a problem with Holocaust denial being illegal.
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