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Do some of you guys think that there are class and race issues in legal job roles? watch

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    It just something I've noticed over time. I know a huge amount of black and working class non whites who studied law or study law at good and well respected universities and somehow can't get vac scheme and training contract offers or even go onto the next stage. Im really starting to get that vibe from the legal field. I have only met one black lawyer from all the networking events that I have been too. even free work experience in firms I didn't see a single black person, especially black males.

    I didn't see black males at open days, I don't see them on law firm profiles and my friends still haven't gotten anything and are working retail and receptionist jobs. I feel like they have a stigma against black people and especially black males. Like they dont want black people to advance to greater roles. I see alot of Asian lawyers, but I hardly see any black lawyers and its incredibly disheartening.

    Imagine growing up poor most of your life, working hard to get to university only to find a racial and classist glass ceiling. I guess thats what the whole postcode discrimation means. A huge majority of whites who received lower grades with less work experience have gone on to get offers or at least a job in the legal sector that guarantees a TC through work merits. what's going on?
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    Not really. It can't be as bad as it appears. After all, this is 2016
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    Don't do law, but my dad who's a black barrister says yes there are.
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    (Original post by Kendrik Lamar)
    Not really. It can't be as bad as it appears. After all, this is 2016
    I honestly feel there is. all I see it white males and females, but hardly any black people and if there was black people only black females. only met and only seen one black lawyer. I think the legal field is very racist towards black men in particular.
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    (Original post by Tai Ga)
    Don't do law, but my dad who's a black barrister says yes there are.
    too late, if i'd known I would not have done it. why would you not recommend people to do law? whites can study it and be absolutely fine, but its very different for blacks. I had no roles models or someone black to look up and just felt like an idiot for picking it if black men were so hated by the legal profession. I did experience for a month in courts around London and only saw one black barrister. something tells me that may have been your dad.
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    (Original post by electro14)
    too late, if i'd known I would not have done it. why would you not recommend people to do law? whites can study it and be absolutely fine, but its very different for blacks. I had no roles models or someone black to look up and just felt like an idiot for picking it if black men were so hated by the legal profession. I did experience for a month in courts around London and only saw one black barrister. something tells me that may have been your dad.
    Oh no I mean't I don't do law so my knowledge of the legal profession is pretty limited. By all means do law.

    Tbh from what I've been told by my dad, the legal profession is very saturated anyway, so ti's hard out there for everyone (barring those from Oxbridge). I'll agree that you'll probably see mostly white lawyers, but black ones do exist too. It's all about networking at the end of the day. But things were arguably easier in his time with the job market being entirely different and what not.

    What a small world if that was the case lol.
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    (Original post by electro14)
    I honestly feel there is. all I see it white males and females, but hardly any black people and if there was black people only black females. only met and only seen one black lawyer. I think the legal field is very racist towards black men in particular.
    Can someone really be racist toward black men but not black women? Doesn't that go against the very definition of racism?

    Read the Diversity League Table produced by the Law Society. Speak to the Black Solicitors Network. Just because you haven't met many black male lawyers you can't simply claim 'the legal field is very racist towards black men'.
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    I agree that black males are underrepresented in the legal profession. That said I do not think the profession is racist. The problem starts much earlier than that.
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    (Original post by electro14)
    It just something I've noticed over time. I know a huge amount of black and working class non whites who studied law or study law at good and well respected universities and somehow can't get vac scheme and training contract offers or even go onto the next stage. Im really starting to get that vibe from the legal field. I have only met one black lawyer from all the networking events that I have been too. even free work experience in firms I didn't see a single black person, especially black males.

    I didn't see black males at open days, I don't see them on law firm profiles and my friends still haven't gotten anything and are working retail and receptionist jobs. I feel like they have a stigma against black people and especially black males. Like they dont want black people to advance to greater roles. I see alot of Asian lawyers, but I hardly see any black lawyers and its incredibly disheartening.

    Imagine growing up poor most of your life, working hard to get to university only to find a racial and classist glass ceiling. I guess thats what the whole postcode discrimation means. A huge majority of whites who received lower grades with less work experience have gone on to get offers or at least a job in the legal sector that guarantees a TC through work merits. what's going on?
    From your post it seems you are making a lot of unfounded conclusions off the basis of assumption as oppose to reasoned evidence. Just because you don't see many black people in law does not give you a right to assume racism. If you keep holding the victim mentality then you will get nowhere. If you really believe your failings in your career will be the result of institutional racism then you need to get a sense of perspective instead of appeasing a meaningless term.

    There might be more white people in law because there are more white people in the country. There might be less black people in law because there's less black people on the country. The only way to determine any disparity is to match the number of law graduates by race with the number of graduate law professionals by race in the respective two years. Even then, you will need to differentiate between the academic esteem of the university and an individual's personal profile.

    If you want to be successful, especially in law, do well at university and get a lot of work experience. Stop worrying yourself about benign falsities because you will be never succeed in that environment.
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    The jobs market for lawyers in this country is saturated.
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    Yes and yes, but you cnat really afford to use it as an excuse.
    Some firms make efforts to combat it and if you are good enough then you should win through.

    It still boils down to people though.
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    Yes there are class and race issues in legal job roles.
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    Firms are trying to get more diverse groups into the profession and have been for sometime (whole of my career anyway).

    There are numerous strands to this issue though and it is not an easy one to rectify. I don't think it is a race issue (personally) - I see it as a social class issue, and it's why social mobility is probably the biggest diversity agenda to most firms.

    This might not be a popular view, and I can only see it from my experience, but the lack of a decent education is the major barrier. By that I mean not only getting the right academic grades, but also the soft skill training from a very young age, particularly within schools but also to some extent within families too.

    I see it all the time - there is a clear differentiation between those who can write well and those who can't. And the division between those who can be seen in a common theme of those who have been privately educated and those who haven't. It can be difficult for someone to catch up to the standards required of law firms in a short space of time if your education from the age of a toddler has been of a lower standard than another candidate. It's years and years of bad habits of not being picked up on that means you are more likely to carry on with them.

    Writing well is one major area this is seen. But there are other key skills that lawyers require and are non-negotiable that are less likely to be developed in lower SEB groups. Unfortunately firms do not have the time or resources to develop these basic skills - they want someone to come in with a high level and they will then try and super-charge them through a training contract.

    Until more is done much earlier (within schools and university) to improve this, I can't see it improving dramatically within the professions.




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    (Original post by emmings)
    I agree that black males are underrepresented in the legal profession. That said I do not think the profession is racist. The problem starts much earlier than that.
    Completely agree. They are under represented as undergraduates. If you have a much smaller proportion of people gaining a qualification that is a pre-requisite to the career, they will be under represented within the profession no matter what the landscape.

    More needs to be done to get both Afro-Caribbean men and working class white males (the most under-represented group currently) into good further education qualifications and then higher education.


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    Law as a subject at undergraduate level is one of the most ethnically diverse out there (something like 35+% of law under grades are from ethnic minorities). However there is a massive skew towards female representation and those who are privately educated.

    Key non-law subjects like History, Politics and Languages that tend to be more heavily represented in the legal careers have a very poor ethnic minority and social mobility diversity.

    Until these areas change, under representation will continue even if everything else was a level playing field.


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    The Bar produces a detailed breakdown of those who gain pupillage each year so we can know exactly the breakdown re ethnicity and gender for example.

    (There is overwhelming evidence that it is inordinately difficult to get one!) Google a few barristers' chambers and look at the qualifications and ECs of their latest recruits - and you will see just what you are up against.. They have not only excellent academics, prizes, publications etc. but often have amassed extraordinary life experience, evidence of resilience and determination - working on death row cases in the US eg. before they even apply.

    Increasingly applications for tenancy etc. are submitted 'blind', so it is specifically requested that you put nothing on your application which would indicate your sex, ethnicity etc.

    Number of Pupillages given
    2014-5 - 221 women 215 men.
    2013-14 - 177 women 217 men
    2012-13 -253 women 260 men
    2011-12 - 210 women 211 men

    No evidence here of a 'massive female skew.'at the Bar.

    https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk...ge-statistics/
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    (Original post by pickup)
    The Bar produces a detailed breakdown of those who gain pupillage each year so we can know exactly the breakdown re ethnicity and gender for example. (There is overwhelming evidence that it is inordinately difficult to get one!)

    Increasingly applications for tenancy etc. are submitted 'blind', so it is specifically requested that you put nothing on your application which would indicate your sex, ethnicity etc.

    Number of Pupillages given
    2014-5 - 221 women 215 men.
    2013-14 - 177 women 217 men
    2012-13 -253 women 260 men
    2011-12 - 210 women 211 men

    No evidence here of a 'massive female skew.'at the Bar.

    https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk...ge-statistics/
    I meant the "massive female skew" is in the law undergraduate population.
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    (Original post by pickup)

    No evidence here of a 'massive female skew.'at the Bar.
    I meant in the law undergraduate population rather than in the careers.
 
 
 
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