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Who pays the Council tax? Me or landlord? watch

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    I'm looking at a new place, 2 bed house with a tenant already living there. She said she's registered recently to pay Council tax and the live out landlord also said I had to pay it.

    However, we have separate tenancy agreements, I contacted the Council and they said it's an HMO (house under Multiple occupation) so the landlord should be paying. If the landlord excludes the council tax in the contract am I still liable to pay?

    Also, I'm applying for a council tax reduction because I'm on a low income. Can my new housemate find out about this or do we get separate bills (split in half?)

    Thanks
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    It depends for a house in multiple occupation, then its the LL.
    They can simply increase your rent though .

    Not sure the council will issue two different bills for the same property.

    Go and talk to Shelter or CAB.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    It depends for a house in multiple occupation, then its the LL.
    They can simply increase your rent though .

    Not sure the council will issue two different bills for the same property.

    Go and talk to Shelter or CAB.
    This.

    On second point, since its landlord technically liable for CT think they would use their income as basis for any potential reductions - dont kow for sure though. Worth looking into though, as landlord can charge you lower rent if your low income can be used to reduce CT.
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    (Original post by Virgil.)
    This.

    On second point, since its landlord technically liable for CT think they would use their income as basis for any potential reductions - dont kow for sure though. Worth looking into as landlord may be able to charge you lower rent.
    Think you are being unrealistic if you expect the LL to lower the rent.
    Example they expect £100 a week for a 2 bed flat.

    They rent to 2 students who pay CT bill. LL gets £100 a week

    LL rents to 2 different people so its a house in mo. LL now has to pay CT.
    LL will now chnage the rent to be £100 + CT for that individual.
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    HMO = landlord liable. Check with the local council to ensure it is registered as a HMO.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Think you are being unrealistic if you expect the LL to lower the rent.
    Example they expect £100 a week for a 2 bed flat.

    They rent to 2 students who pay CT bill. LL gets £100 a week

    LL rents to 2 different people so its a house in mo. LL now has to pay CT.
    LL will now chnage the rent to be £100 + CT for that individual.
    You misunderstood.

    I am assuming the LL passes CT bill onto the tenants. But if possible for OP's low income to reduce the CT bill, then s/he can say LL should reduce their rent by the amount of the reduction.

    The LL should agree to this because the LL will still end up with the same amount of cash at the end of the month regardless, and lower rent means OP will be more likely to meet rent payments & occupy the property for longer.
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    (Original post by Virgil.)
    You misunderstood.

    I am assuming the LL passes CT cost onto tenants.

    But if possible for OP's low income to reduce the CT bill, then s/he can say LL should reduce their rent by the amount of the reduction.

    The LL should agree to this because the LL will still end up with the same amount of cash at the end of the month regardless, and lower rent means OP will be more likely to make payments.
    The tenant will end up paying more and the LL will not have to pay.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    The tenant will end up paying more and the LL will not have to pay.
    What are you saying lol?


    Now just seems like you're just trying to prove you weren't wrong.

    You werent wrong, you just misinterpreted what I was saying.
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    (Original post by FutureDoctorBrah)
    I'm looking at a new place, 2 bed house with a tenant already living there. She said she's registered recently to pay Council tax and the live out landlord also said I had to pay it.

    However, we have separate tenancy agreements, I contacted the Council and they said it's an HMO (house under Multiple occupation) so the landlord should be paying. If the landlord excludes the council tax in the contract am I still liable to pay?

    Also, I'm applying for a council tax reduction because I'm on a low income. Can my new housemate find out about this or do we get separate bills (split in half?)

    Thanks
    The LL is responsible for paying in a HMO, but it is likely your contract makes you liable for council tax.* In the real world, if LL has to pay council tax but your contract says you are bound to reimburse him then its just simply for you to deal with it directly.

    Just to prove my point above really; it would be a lot harder for you to apply for a reduction if the council tax was in the landlords name. Anyway, applying for a reduction does no harm as the worse case is that you are told no, but I think it will be a no. Council tax is worked out on a household basis, so unless your flatmates + your income is enough to qualify for a reduction I don't think you will get one just because your own income is low.

    *In the event that your tenancy agreement does not specify that you are liable for the council tax cost then yes, LL has to pay. But LL wont be hapy and this will realistically result in a s21 notice at the earliest possible time.
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    It depends for a house in multiple occupation, then its the LL.They can simply increase your rent though .
    LLs cant simply choose to alter the rent for no reason.
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    (Original post by Mathmoji)

    LLs cant simply choose to alter the rent for no reason.
    He does have a reason. the OP starts off with he is looking at a new place so not sure if he has signed yet.

    Not sure what the situation is for where one of the clauses is inneffective, but he cna look towards amending or terminating it. id have to see the tenancy. There is no way the LL if he is liable will want to pay, so he will just get a new tenant if he can and the OP isnt interested in paying.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    He does have a reason. the OP starts off with he is looking at a new place so not sure if he has signed yet.
    Yes, a landlord can attempt to negotiate a new rent before a tenancy has commenced. However, I'm assuming the OP isn't dumb enough to raise this before signing the tenancy agreement with a LL. Once the tenancy is signed, rent can't be altered in the fixed term and it would need a s13 notice after that, which can be challenged.
    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Not sure what the situation is for where one of the clauses is inneffective, but he cna look towards amending or terminating it. id have to see the tenancy. There is no way the LL if he is liable will want to pay, so he will just get a new tenant if he can and the OP isnt interested in paying.
    Again, if it is silent on the issue then OP would be silly to raise this imo prior to signing. Once the tenancy begins, LL is bound by the terms of the tenancy and can not amend or terminate them. At that point the landlord is stuck with paying whether he likes it or not as a tenant can't be evicted before the end of the fixed term.

    As I stated, doing this will probably result in a s21 notice (ie. eviction) at the earliest opportunity - so weigh up how much saving on that council tax means to you.
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    (Original post by Mathmoji)
    Yes, a landlord can attempt to negotiate a new rent before a tenancy has commenced. However, I'm assuming the OP isn't dumb enough to raise this before signing the tenancy agreement with a LL. Once the tenancy is signed, rent can't be altered in the fixed term and it would need a s13 notice after that, which can be challenged.


    Again, if it is silent on the issue then OP would be silly to raise this imo prior to signing. Once the tenancy begins, LL is bound by the terms of the tenancy and can not amend or terminate them. At that point the landlord is stuck with paying whether he likes it or not as a tenant can't be evicted before the end of the fixed term.

    As I stated, doing this will probably result in a s21 notice (ie. eviction) at the earliest opportunity - so weigh up how much saving on that council tax means to you.
    I'd have to see the agreement. If you have some case law indicating what happens where the tenant agrees to take on the obligation v it automatically falling on the LL for mo houses, then feel free to reference it.

    My understanding is that the heriearchy of who pays is just a fallback position rather than it being absolute. Quite happy to accept its otherwise if you have a reference. Not invested enough to look it up.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    I'd have to see the agreement. If you have some case law indicating what happens where the tenant agrees to take on the obligation v it automatically falling on the LL for mo houses, then feel free to reference it.

    My understanding is that the heriearchy of who pays is just a fallback position rather than it being absolute. Quite happy to accept its otherwise if you have a reference. Not invested enough to look it up.
    If there is a clause in the agreement stating that the tenant is responsible for council tax then it is fairly obvious what happens. Legislation means LL is liable to council and T is liable to LL under contract. Statute makes LL liable for council tax, nothing either party agrees can overrule statute.

    At no point have I suggested that, in the presence of such a term, a tenant would not need to pay the council tax.
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    (Original post by FutureDoctorBrah)
    I'm looking at a new place, 2 bed house with a tenant already living there. She said she's registered recently to pay Council tax and the live out landlord also said I had to pay it.

    However, we have separate tenancy agreements, I contacted the Council and they said it's an HMO (house under Multiple occupation) so the landlord should be paying. If the landlord excludes the council tax in the contract am I still liable to pay?

    Also, I'm applying for a council tax reduction because I'm on a low income. Can my new housemate find out about this or do we get separate bills (split in half?)

    Thanks
    A HMO is only required where the tenants have more than two different surnames. As yours only has one other person in it, it wouldn't make sense for it to be a HMO. The tenants will be responsible for the council tax.
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    (Original post by Mathmoji)
    If there is a clause in the agreement stating that the tenant is responsible for council tax then it is fairly obvious what happens. Legislation means LL is liable to council and T is liable to LL under contract. Statute makes LL liable for council tax, nothing either party agrees can overrule statute.

    At no point have I suggested that, in the presence of such a term, a tenant would not need to pay the council tax.
    Nope im fine with the latter bit.
    Im more from a practical angle that when the LL finds out they are liable, then they will seek to get that money back, hence needing to look at the agreement as to what his rights to terminate are.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Nope im fine with the latter bit.
    Im more from a practical angle that when the LL finds out they are liable, then they will seek to get that money back, hence needing to look at the agreement as to what his rights to terminate are.
    Well, if the agreement is silent then LL has no avenue to recover those costs from T. Why do you think he would be able to?

    Whatever the agreement says about his right to terminate is more or less irrelevant. The procedure to end a tenancy is governed by statute. The only caveat would be a break clause; but most of those are so poorly drafted as to fall foul of consumer/unfair terms legislation.
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    (Original post by Mathmoji)
    Well, if the agreement is silent then LL has no avenue to recover those costs from T. Why do you think he would be able to?

    Whatever the agreement says about his right to terminate is more or less irrelevant. The procedure to end a tenancy is governed by statute. The only caveat would be a break clause; but most of those are so poorly drafted as to fall foul of consumer/unfair terms legislation.
    I'd prefer to look at the agreement and get the full facts.
 
 
 
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