Transgenders at Rio, what do you think?

So there's two British Trans-genered people competing at Rio this year which represents an Olympic first, as far as i know?
More curious what people think of it, both this instance and the precedent.

I believe the guidelines state female-to-male can compete without prejudice whilst Male-to-Female must have undergone HRT. Rather curious what people's views on M->F and F->M are?

Personally I find it slightly iffy especially with regard to Male-to-Female people competing since, as a rule of thumb, it could well put them at an advantage in the sport in many cases, especially when you factor in many countries the mere idea of this happening could earn you a short drop with a sudden stop. although some of the past competitors from the former USSR such as The Press sisters, Klobuwowska and more recently Semenya have seriously blurred the line :rolleyes:

Aside from that no particular objections persay)

I'm rather curious to see how the two Brits do though :smile:

Reply 1

username917703

I think you should compete as the sex you were born as.

Reply 2

Moonstruck16

I have no problem with people who are transgendered but like you, I feel there may be unfairness with M-->F in certain sports where a greater natural body strength is an advantage.

Reply 3

AdeptDz

Original post by Moonstruck16

I have no problem with people who are transgendered but like you, I feel there may be unfairness with M-->F in certain sports where a greater natural body strength is an advantage.

This

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Reply 4

Altun63

Original post by Wilfred Little

I think you should compete as the sex you were born as.

My thought exactly before I even opened the thread

Reply 5

Danny the Geezer

I'm not overly LGBTQ "friendly" in the sense that I am not any of the categories, nor do I come in contact with many people who are, and so the whole thing is very alien to me. Not homophobic by any means- in this context I agree you should compete as the sex you were born as-especially male to female as you're more likely to have an unfair advantage.

Reply 6

BKS

I think for trans men it's a non-issue. If you aren't on testosterone you should be able to choose, there's no advantage. If you are on testosterone you compete as a man and should always be given a therapeutic use exemption so long as your levels are kept within normal male range. Trans men will usually be less competitive until they've been on testosterone a few years (like how teenage boys can't compete with men) but not much you can do about that.

I think with trans women, the issues are over stated. The hormone requirement is what science tells us is long enough for them not to have a 'natural' strength advantage. The Olympic committee didn't take this decision lightly, they wouldn't do anything that opens them up to accusations of unfairness. They knew they had to be able to justify it well if a trans woman does happen to win a medal. The fact they went with allow trans women in shows the evidence is there.

You do get things like trans women being on average taller than cis women so may be better at something like basketball. But why does it matter how she came to be taller than average? Why say it's unfair that a trans woman is tall if you wouldn't a cis woman who happens to be the same height? If there's a point it's that some people being taller is unfair on shorter people who want to play basketball so we need height categories. That's obviously a bit silly, especially at Olympic level.

Reply 7

Danny the Geezer

Seems like they're covering every possible niche minority (refugees, transgendered people) just for the sake of it, just to be groundbreaking, PC gone made imo.

Reply 8

Napp

Original post by Danny the Geezer

Seems like they're covering every possible niche minority (refugees, transgendered people) just for the sake of it, just to be groundbreaking, PC gone made imo.

I'm rather inclined to agree here.

Is it just me or since Bruce remoddled himself as Caitlyn has the attention on orientations somewhat off centre, so to speak, gone through the roof?

I seem to recall growing up little mention was ever made of Transexuals let alone these frankly very er... novel.. other ones like gender fluid, gender neutral etc. etc.. etc...

Reply 9

Trapz99

Original post by Wilfred Little

I think you should compete as the sex you were born as.

Exactly what I think as well. Men tend to be naturally better than women at some sports and women tend to be naturally better than men at some sports so transgenders might have an unfair advantage.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 10

BKS

Original post by Napp

Original post by Trapz99

Exactly what I think as well. Men tend to be naturally better than women at some sports and women tend to be naturally better than men at some sports so transgenders might have an unfair advantage.

What's interesting to me is you using 'tend' and 'might'. At what point is there enough evidence to shift your view to more it's probably fine? This is representative of the views of doctors working with trans people.

A trans woman who has been long term on hormones has no chance against men- is that fair? A trans man who is on testosterone can build as much muscle as a cis man- is it fair for him to compete against women? I think the alternative is pretty much saying trans people can't compete if they medically transition and that does seem fair either.

Reply 11

Napp

Original post by BKS

It's not really got much to do with Caitlyn, she's just especially high profile. I think if we are going to point to one tipping point of visibility in the UK it was My Transsexual Summer, the channel 4 show. But it has been gradual but really picked up pace over the last ten years or so.

Trans people have felt more able to be visible because society has got more tolerant. The media have learned how to engage with trans people in less sensationalist ways. More people are transitioning because they know what being trans is. The media knows their readers/viewers often take interest in stories about trans people so they run them. People hear more well informed pieces on trans people so have more accepting attitudes.

It's an interconnected set of factors as all societal attitude changes are. There's a good chance that in another ten years most people will think it was mad trans people were ever not allowed in the Olympics

What's interesting to me is you using 'tend' and 'might'. At what point is there enough evidence to shift your view to more it's probably fine? This is representative of the views of doctors working with trans people.

A trans woman who has been long term on hormones has no chance against men- is that fair? A trans man who is on testosterone can build as much muscle as a cis man- is it fair for him to compete against women? I think the alternative is pretty much saying trans people can't compete if they medically transition and that does seem fair either.

I should point out that having made some of my views more apparent there does not detract from the earlier posts where i had not voiced an opinion as such on the matter at hand.
To a point however what can i say i'm somewhat old faashioned in being of the opinion that people should be competeing as they are, not as they would like. The precent becomes rather murky at that point.

True although I more meant even in basic education the topic of homosexuality was breached without any qualms [even if it did traumatize the class thanks to the video :rolleyes:

] however i dont dispute that it has become more socially acceptable, as it were, I do stand by that it seems to have gone somewhat overboard though with dozens of catagories these days.

I havent heard of that show what ws it?

Reply 12

BKS

Original post by Napp

The precent becomes rather murky at that point? I don't get what you means

How are you defining what they are? Like this trans man was a pole vaulter, he got injured and I don't think ever competed as a man but I think from looking at him we can say he obviously shouldn't be competing as a woman because of his muscle mass

I think the thing is, visually it becomes easier to see why a trans man should be competing as a man. But if we accept that amount of change is possible for a trans man then I think you have to ask why not trans women too?

I think we probably do have to say there's shades of grey. I just don't really get why so many people come down on it as not allowing trans people because to me that seem more unfair

It was a bunch of trans folk, followed for the summer and having a few get together at a house. It wasn't spot on but it was really the first time mainstream media tried to show what being trans is like to live life as a trans person instead of just dumbing it down to 'the surgery'