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    In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control.
    - From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million
    dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
    up and exterminated.


    In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
    - From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to
    defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


    Germany established gun control in 1938.
    - From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies,
    homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were
    unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.


    Since we should learn from the mistakes of history,
    the next time someone talks in favor of gun control,
    find out which group of citizens they wish to have
    exterminated.


    Over the previous 25 years, figures show a steady
    decrease in armed robberies and Australian politicians
    are on the spot and at a loss to explain how no
    improvement in "safety" has been observed after such
    monumental effort and expense was successfully
    expended in "ridding society of guns."


    It's time to state it plainly; Guns in the hands of
    honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
    gun-control laws only affect the law-abiding citizens.


    China established gun control in 1935.
    - From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents,
    unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.


    Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
    - From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to
    defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


    Uganda established gun control in 1970.
    - From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to
    defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.


    Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
    - From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people,
    unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.


    That places total victims who lost their lives because
    of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last
    century.
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    "we need to ban guns to protect people", said the single biggest perpetrator of murder in history
    "people can't be trusted to own guns", said the organisation that fights illegal wars

    while I think the ability of a society at large to defend itself against a government is very important, that's not even the main reason to have guns legal (but still regulated to the most minimal degree, i.e. age to legally purchase a gun, not selling guns to known psychopaths or previous murderers, etc) is based on the right of people to protect themselves not against the government but simply against other people - if you have a gun, you are equal to everybody else. sure, if you are against a gang, you are outgunned, but which one of those in that gang is willing to risk their life for whatever trivial crime they're going to commit?
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    Present day UK with gun control = no mass shootings with someone choosing to shoot up a school, a cinema, a gay club, a sorority house, a home for the disabled, workplaces and so forth.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    Present day UK with gun control = no mass shootings with someone choosing to shoot up a school, a cinema, a guy club, a sorority house, a home for the disabled, workplaces and so forth.
    switzerland; has mass gun ownership; no murders
    france; has guns banned; terrorism/murders still occur

    do you honestly think this is about guns?
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    switzerland; has mass gun ownership; no murders
    france; has guns banned; terrorism/murders still occur

    do you honestly think this is about guns?
    I very much believe that the current situation in the US has everything to do with their culture of gun worship. Not to mention the fact that Switzerland does have gun control laws. but the fact that around 45% are allowed to keep guns is relative to the low homicide rate. When the UK has a crime rate like Switzerland's we can talk.
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I very much believe that the current situation in the US has everything to do with their culture of gun worship.
    so not guns.

    Not to mention the fact that Switzerland does have gun control laws.
    I didn't say they didn't, I said there was "mass ownership". also, the US also has *some* laws in terms of guns - don't pretend they have none - so it's still "gun regulation"

    but the fact that around 45% are allowed to keep guns is relative to the low homicide rate. When the UK has a crime rate like Switzerland's we can talk.
    why are you assuming that gun ownership is *based* on a lower homicide rate? what if the low homicide rate was *because* of gun ownership?
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    (Original post by WBZ144)
    I very much believe that the current situation in the US has everything to do with their culture of gun worship. Not to mention the fact that Switzerland does have gun control laws. but the fact that around 45% are allowed to keep guns is relative to the low homicide rate. When the UK has a crime rate like Switzerland's we can talk.
    The UK's gun crime rate is low, but we are the violent crime capital of Europe.

    Allowing innocent, law-abiding citizens to defend themselves from violence and menace is a justifiable reason for legalising guns.
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    A question for the two of you: please elaborate on how exactly gun ownership will bring the homicide rate down? Do you have any evidence that citizens in Switzerland are defending themselves with guns, which is why they aren't being murdered?

    By stark contrast, guns are being used to carry out mass shootings in the USA. Also, the fact that the crime rate in the UK is quite high compared to other parts of Europe would only suggest that guns are the last thing we need.

    The statement "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is nonsense. We might as reiterate that extremist ideologies don't kill people, as it is people who kill people.
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    If guns are protecting people, we don't hear about it very often.

    Let's say you're in your house, in bed at night. For safety reasons, you're not feasibly gonna have your gun very easy to access, especially if you have kids. If someone breaks in to your house you probably won't have time to get your gun.

    Let's say someone comes up behind you in an alleyway and puts a knife to your throat or a gun to your head. Your gun is gonna do so much good there, isn't it?

    Let's say some random pulls a gun on you. Are you going to be able to reach for yours and get them before they get you? Doubt it.

    Let's say some guy comes in with an assault rifle and starts mowing people down. If you can aim at them without them noticing you, and you have the balls to do so, and you're an accurate marksman, you might save some lives. Note though that the situation of them coming in with said assault rifle is far, far more likely when guns are legal anyway.

    And as for protection from the state? Absolutely laughable. The state has tanks, missiles, trained soldiers, etc.

    The chance of an actual situation arising where legal gun ownership with light restrictions saves lives seems pretty damn small. If mass killings could be alleviated by lax gun ownership laws, we would more often see the shooters in the US quickly being stopped, but they aren't. As for smaller crimes, you would need to be in a constant state of readiness to have a chance, it would seem.
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    switzerland; has mass gun ownership; no murders
    france; has guns banned; terrorism/murders still occur

    do you honestly think this is about guns?
    Where does this notion keep on cropping up from? Sure, Switzerland doesn't have as much gun crime as america, but has the expected amount based on the number of guns, i.e. more than countries that have less guns per person. Finland would probably be a better example, but I guess expecting people to actually do their research when debating guns is just expecting too much.

    Many Swiss people are against the current liberal gun laws and wish they were tightened up.
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    I don't see any reason to legalise guns. If the government really wanted to control the population they would, guns or not guns. If people really want to harm you they will, guns or not guns. All guns do is make it easier for crazy people to go out and commit horrendous crimes.
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    Are you from a firearm company ? Are you proud of making money that way? I do hope your loved ones won't die of many bullets in their heads.

    https://www.thetrace.org/2015/12/gun...ce-stats-2015/

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