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    (Original post by SJ No.18)
    it won't be the first time accusations of the jewish involved in slavery, I don't know the facts but their is that view among many and I wouldn't be surprised. Can anyone tell me what nationality Abraham Lincoln was, cheers
    I believe Abraham Lincoln was American. If you're inquiring as to his race/religious beliefs, try wikipedia:

    "we normally call people who "believe in the Bible" without "believing in Jesus Christ" Jews'" The above quoted comment is very ignorant. The bible is consisted of mainly the new testament which has nothing to do with Judaism. Judaism refers to the first five books of the Hebrew Bible (we don't use the term Old Testament) as the Torah. There are three sections to the Hebrew Bible or as it is called in Hebrew "TaNaKH:" Torah, Prophets, Writings. Jews view Jesus as a Jew who was benevolent but not as a messiah.




    Was Abraham Lincoln a Christian? I found this at [1] (http://www.intouch.org/myintouch/mig...ln_213718.html):

    ...Thanks to the devotion of his mother, Nancy, who died when he was quite young, and then his stepmother, Sarah Bush, Lincoln grew to regard the Bible as a foundational tool for life. Lincoln once said: "This great book [the Bible]...is the best gift God has given to man...But for it we could not know right from wrong."
    ...
    Despite his Christian upbringing, Lincoln did not accept Christ as his Savior until later in life. While he governed the nation by many of the principles written in God's Word, he lacked a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. After the death of his son, Willie, Lincoln heard for the first time of Christ's personal love and forgiveness for each man and woman.
    He wrote: "When I left Springfield, I asked the people to pray for me; I was not a Christian. When I buried my son—the severest trial of my life - I was not a Christian. But when I went to Gettysburg, and saw the graves of thousands of our soldiers, I then and there consecrated myself to Christ."

    REF:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tbc/Abraham_Lincoln
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    (Original post by SJ No.18)
    it won't be the first time accusations of the jewish involved in slavery, I don't know the facts but their is that view among many and I wouldn't be surprised. Can anyone tell me what nationality Abraham Lincoln was, cheers
    this guys probably one of anti-liberals friends
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    Thanks for that. Those qoutes if true backs of my beleif that most people later in life turn to religion because it gives them a sense of security not because they've "seen the light" as hardcores would lead you to believe.
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    (Original post by SJ No.18)
    Thanks for that. Those qoutes if true backs of my beleif that most people later in life turn to religion because it gives them a sense of security not because they've "seen the light" as hardcores would lead you to believe.
    Yes, Lincoln seeing gettysburg wasn't seeing the light. He was seeing the dark and it caused him to change his life.
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    The key problem among some of the trolls here seems to be a serious case of bad logic. This is at its worst when it has some basis, however flimsy, in truth, especially if two unrelated facts can be fused into an ugly whole. Witness the power of bad logic.

    The Israeli government murders civilians and illegally grabs land, generally treating the Palestinians like shite. PRETTY TRUE

    Most of the Israeli Government are Jewish. TRUE

    Therefore, all Israelis are murderers, and Jewish people are inherently evil. BAD LOGIC

    Unflinching American support for Israel allows Israel to get away with more then it should. TRUE

    This is partly because of the powerful Jewish swing vote in America. TRUE

    There is a Jewish conspiracy to control the world, and they are evil. Evil! BAD LOGIC

    The aftermath of the holocaust and World War 2 generated a great deal of sympathy for the Jewish people, and may have been one of the deciding factors in the formation of Israel. TRUE

    Therefore, the Jews both started World War 2 and faked the Holocaust. BAD LOGIC

    There are intelligent, reasonable arguments that place the blame firmly on Israel, just as there are intelligent, reasonable arguments that place the blame on the Palestinians. Let's hear those, rather then using bad logic to promote bigoted viewpoints.

    Personally, I think things will only get better when one side stops killing the other, and that the state sponsered killing perpetrated by Israel would be a lot easier to rein in then the terroist organisations of Palestine.

    And yes, I know there is debate over the degree of complicity between Arafat's government and the terrorist, but I cannot believe it is as great as the Israeli governments involement in the brutal warcrimes perpetrated by its soldiers. Just my opinion.

    Lets have more of reasoned debate then a rabid anti-semetic/Anti-Islam/anti-whatever ethnic group/religion/sexual orientation.

    AntiLiberal, we have heard your viewpoint. Now go back to your troll cave.
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    (Original post by Leachboy)
    The key problem among some of the trolls here seems to be a serious case of bad logic. This is at its worst when it has some basis, however flimsy, in truth, especially if two unrelated facts can be fused into an ugly whole. Witness the power of bad logic.

    The Israeli government murders civilians and illegally grabs land, generally treating the Palestinians like shite. PRETTY TRUE

    Most of the Israeli Government are Jewish. TRUE

    Therefore, all Israelis are murderers, and Jewish people are inherently evil. BAD LOGIC

    Unflinching American support for Israel allows Israel to get away with more then it should. TRUE

    This is partly because of the powerful Jewish swing vote in America. TRUE

    There is a Jewish conspiracy to control the world, and they are evil. Evil! BAD LOGIC

    The aftermath of the holocaust and World War 2 generated a great deal of sympathy for the Jewish people, and may have been one of the deciding factors in the formation of Israel. TRUE

    Therefore, the Jews both started World War 2 and faked the Holocaust. BAD LOGIC

    There are intelligent, reasonable arguments that place the blame firmly on Israel, just as there are intelligent, reasonable arguments that place the blame on the Palestinians. Let's hear those, rather then using bad logic to promote bigoted viewpoints.

    Personally, I think things will only get better when one side stops killing the other, and that the state sponsered killing perpetrated by Israel would be a lot easier to rein in then the terroist organisations of Palestine.

    And yes, I know there is debate over the degree of complicity between Arafat's government and the terrorist, but I cannot believe it is as great as the Israeli governments involement in the brutal warcrimes perpetrated by its soldiers. Just my opinion.

    Lets have more of reasoned debate then a rabid anti-semetic/Anti-Islam/anti-whatever ethnic group/religion/sexual orientation.

    AntiLiberal, we have heard your viewpoint. Now go back to your troll cave.
    You only wish i was a troll. I will still be here standing up for the good fight when you are long gone, you brainwashed fool.
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    (Original post by AntiLiberal)
    You only wish i was a troll. I will still be here standing up for the good fight when you are long gone, you brainwashed fool.
    I think you forgot make an attempt at answering the points he raised. How about trying again eh?
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    I think you forgot make an attempt at answering the points he raised. How about trying again eh?
    exactly, he doesnt debate and discuss at all...maybe he cant.
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    Anti-liberal, I have disputed your main points on the grounds that they are illogical, and lack evidence to back them up. Rather then insulting me, you would do better to rebutt my arguments. If you can show me evidence of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world without quoting psycotic right wing websites, then I will be perfectly happy to consider your point of view. But I doubt you can. Not because "the jews control everything", but because there is no conspiracy.

    Thus far, all you've done is call me "brainwashed", and tell everyone in the vaguest, most paranoid fashion possible to "open their eyes". In case you hadn't noticed, I join you in condemming Israel's behaviour. However, I like to believe that my opinion is based on fact and reasoning, rather then wild anti-semetism and paranoia. You are using your own, rather paranoid, opinion as your only fact, which is an error in a debate. Debates are all about individual opinions reinforced by solid fact. Without opinion you have no reason to debate, without facts your opinion has no weight behind it.

    I insulted you by calling you a troll, and you insulted me by calling me a brainwashed fool. Prove you are better then me, not by sulking and trying to ***** at me, but by proving me wrong. If you can.
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    Open your eyes and learn to think for yourself. No matter what i say or post, you or one of your jew hugging friends will call any website "psycotic right wing" that isnt run by a jew or a jew hugger. I`m not speaking of anything that may or may not be on a website to begin with. What i am trying to get white ppl all over the world to do is to turn the talmudvision off and start using your own judgement for whats right and whats wrong.

    If you cannot see the white-country demoralization going on, then you are really a lost cause to begin with, because you are programmed to think a certain way and not to think for yourself.
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    (Original post by AntiLiberal)
    Open your eyes and learn to think for yourself. No matter what i say or post, you or one of your jew hugging friends will call any website "psycotic right wing" that isnt run by a jew or a jew hugger. I`m not speaking of anything that may or may not be on a website to begin with. What i am trying to get white ppl all over the world to do is to turn the talmudvision off and start using your own judgement for whats right and whats wrong.

    If you cannot see the white-country demoralization going on, then you are really a lost cause to begin with, because you are programmed to think a certain way and not to think for yourself.
    well i for one am convinced by this well researched, thorough and informative post.

    leachboy, antiliberal has more than risen to the challenge you set down. :rolleyes:
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    I'm sorry Anti-liberal. I'm sorry that you are so angry, and so afraid, and that your anger makes you lash out at an ancient scapegoat, that you feel the need to blame everything **** that happens in this little world of ours on whatever ethnic/religious group first springs to your attention.

    I think for myself. No one is deceiving me. I am a profoundly cynical person by nature, hence why I am an atheist. I'm too sceptical and questioning by nature to accept religion. I keep my eyes open and look around, and I don't see leering, hook nosed jews stealing my money, or barbaric blacks raping white women, or dirty asylum seekers scrounging off my country. All I see are a lot of angry, ignorant people seeking someone else to blame for their problems. Like you.

    I know what I feel is right and wrong. Whats wrong with the world is prejudice and hate. Whats wrong with the world are people like you who just see what makes us different, rather then trying to see what we all have in common.

    The problems in this world aren't caused by the jews, or the arabs, or the christians, or by any group. Its not that simple. The problems are caused by ********s, and they come in all colours. There is no evil race, there is no master race. There's just people. Sooner you realise that and deal with it, the sooner you'll be a lot happier.
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    I like you Leachboy. Welcome to D&D.
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    (Original post by carldaman)
    I like you Leachboy. Welcome to D&D.
    Yes, he states his opinions in a professional and balanced way. Though i beleive I disagree with him on the Israel-Palestine issue...
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    (Original post by Leachboy)
    I'm sorry Anti-liberal. I'm sorry that you are so angry, and so afraid, and that your anger makes you lash out at an ancient scapegoat, that you feel the need to blame everything **** that happens in this little world of ours on whatever ethnic/religious group first springs to your attention.

    I think for myself. No one is deceiving me. I am a profoundly cynical person by nature, hence why I am an atheist. I'm too sceptical and questioning by nature to accept religion. I keep my eyes open and look around, and I don't see leering, hook nosed jews stealing my money, or barbaric blacks raping white women, or dirty asylum seekers scrounging off my country. All I see are a lot of angry, ignorant people seeking someone else to blame for their problems. Like you.

    I know what I feel is right and wrong. Whats wrong with the world is prejudice and hate. Whats wrong with the world are people like you who just see what makes us different, rather then trying to see what we all have in common.

    The problems in this world aren't caused by the jews, or the arabs, or the christians, or by any group. Its not that simple. The problems are caused by ********s, and they come in all colours. There is no evil race, there is no master race. There's just people. Sooner you realise that and deal with it, the sooner you'll be a lot happier.
    i totally agree, he is just a troll trying wind everyone up.
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    http://www.blacksandjews.com/Jews_and_Slavery.html

    Facts speak volumes. Stop letting the jew blame his sins on the christian white man. Think for yourselves and do your own research into true history and not the history the jews want you to know.
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    Well you've totally converted me. Go anti-semitism :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by carldaman)
    Well you've totally converted me. Go anti-semitism :rolleyes:
    calling someone an anti-semite = acknowleding they can think for themselves and be aware of thier surroundings, so thank you.
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    (Original post by AntiLiberal)
    calling someone an anti-semite = acknowleding they can think for themselves and be aware of thier surroundings, so thank you.
    :rolleyes:
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    *sigh* I'm running out of patience, but I'm a stubborn *******, so I'll have another go.

    I read the link you directed me to, but I do not see how it supports your argument. In order to explain this, I must highlight how you are generalising from a small proportion of a ethnic/religious group, and applying it to the whole.

    Recently, people who were pissed off with anti-americanism highlighted what they felt was unfair, insulting behaviour that was not condemmed by asking people to replace the word "American" in their insult with "black people". For example.

    "Americans are stupid and arrogant" becomes "Black people are stupid and arrogant". Clearly offensive. Equally, to highlight the incorrectness of your argument, try replacing the word "Jews" with "white people".

    The website states, in summary, that several centuries ago some, or even a lot of, Jews owned slaves. Alternative Translation: Several centuries a lot of white people owned slaves. Not exactly earth shattering news.

    It goes on to mention the racist comments of some Jewish scientists, celebrities, etc. Alternative Translation: Some white scientists and celebrities are racists. Wow. No ****.

    I agree with you that Jews owned slaves, and that some modern day Jews are racist ******s. Where we diverge is that because of the comments of the minority, you blame the entire group. Illogical behaviour. You cannot apply the sins of the few, or of distant ancestors, to the entire present day group.

    Juts because some white people as owned slaves, does not mean that every white person in the world is a bigoted fool. Just because some white people are racist does not mean all white people are racists. Can you see the analogy I am making? Jews don't have the monopoly on ******** behaviour, as I said in my last post. We all contribute our fair share.

    And for the record, an anti-semite is one who hates jews. It is often misused, I will concede, to label anyone who is critical of Israel, much in the same way that anyone aganist the war in America was given the horrible, McCarthite lable of un-American. However, in your case I feel the label is justified. It is not a badge of honour.

    As a sidenote, thanks for the welcomes from some of the people on the board, its nice to be made welcome. And Jonaten, I'd love to hear your perspective on the whole Israeli/Palestine situation, although this thread may not be the ideal point of discussion.

    I am interested in all points of view, as long as they are backed up with fact and considered thinking, rather then being a result of ignorance and hatred. After all, liberals and conservatives are both trying to solve the same problems, they just take different roads to get there. One of my best friends is a staunch conservative, but we get on fine, because he has intelligent ideas to base his arguments for a conservative society on. I love hearing intelligent points of view, even if (perhaps especially if) they differ radically from my own ideas.
 
 
 
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