what if the aborted fetus is born alive

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ARCHK0VEN
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#1
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I think this is an interesting scenario. what happens then? surely if teh fetus is intentionally killed now, then it must be murder. but if the baby is tried to be saved then isnt that hypocrisy- first you try and abort/kill then fetus and now try and save it??

wht should be done here?

what are the current laws right now? are aborted babies allowd to be left to die- i think this is allowd because people who are very ill can be taken off the respirator right?
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PQ
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It is best practice to inject a poison into the foetus's heart ("killing" it instantly) to stop it before commencing the termination.
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randdom
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(Original post by ARCHK0VEN)
I think this is an interesting scenario. what happens then? surely if teh fetus is intentionally killed now, then it must be murder. but if the baby is tried to be saved then isnt that hypocrisy- first you try and abort/kill then fetus and now try and save it??

wht should be done here?

what are the current laws right now? are aborted babies allowd to be left to die- i think this is allowd because people who are very ill can be taken off the respirator right?
I think that if in some strange situation a woman who had an abortion has a baby which can survive the baby should be given every support possible to help it survive. I personally don't believe that a foetus that can survive should ever be aborted.
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JnA
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But what i dont understand, how would a foetus survive outside the womb at all. Even if its put on some sort of life-suppost system.

I dont know how they abort,but dont they induce labour, so the foetus wen its gestated dies once it comes out? (I dunno if Im on the right tracks at all... :confused: )
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viviki
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http://depts.washington.edu/uwcoe/he...erm_facts.html
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BloodyValentine
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(Original post by JnA)
But what i dont understand, how would a foetus survive outside the womb at all. Even if its put on some sort of life-suppost system.

I dont know how they abort,but dont they induce labour, so the foetus wen its gestated dies once it comes out? (I dunno if Im on the right tracks at all... :confused: )
i believe there are some very rare conditions where the baby survives for a few minutes but eventually dies because his lungs (might be heart not entirely sure) in undeveloped. i think the argument lies on whether if this happens you should put the foetus on a life support system personally i disagree premature babies tend to suffer from many cerebral problems
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drago di giada
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Is it possible for an aborted fetus to be born alive? Seriously.. if a fetus is aborted then it is killed.. end of story.. right?
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KerChing
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(Original post by drago di giada)
Is it possible for an aborted fetus to be born alive? Seriously.. if a fetus is aborted then it is killed.. end of story.. right?
i read or watched somewhere instances where a foetus was aborted, but eventually, not sure how, but was still born.. and the main reason is because they have survived the drugs/chemicals that should have killed it. however the baby can be born but will be much less able than others to stay alive and maybe severely handicapped. i think its an awful situation, but nothing can be done to prevent it happenning apart from just continuing with the pregnancy without harming the baby/foetus
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drago di giada
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(Original post by KerChing)
i read or watched somewhere instances where a foetus was aborted, but eventually, not sure how, but was still born.. and the main reason is because they have survived the drugs/chemicals that should have killed it. however the baby can be born but will be much less able than others to stay alive and maybe severely handicapped. i think its an awful situation, but nothing can be done to prevent it happenning apart from just continuing with the pregnancy without harming the baby/foetus
Thats crazy.. I'm totally pro-choice, its the mothers' decision.. but thats still.. wow.
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KerChing
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(Original post by drago di giada)
Thats crazy.. I'm totally pro-choice, its the mothers' decision.. but thats still.. wow.
i agree with you, but sometimes a mothers decision is really biased, and really depends on effects of hormones,situation the usual stuff... as well as this you have to look at the knowledge of the mother, does she know all the resulting possibilities of the situation and all that.. theres a lot of issues, and although i still believe the end choice is the mothers, they should still be notified about some of the other small probabilities... not many teenagers/young adults who have pregnancies know much about what happens when an abortion goes wrong..
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by drago di giada)
Thats crazy.. I'm totally pro-choice, its the mothers' decision.. but thats still.. wow.
So if you had a wife and then you considered the possibility to have a child and you both agreed and then had sex. Then several weeks later she had an abortion and went off with another guy. Would you still hold this view?
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drago di giada
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(Original post by KerChing)
i agree with you, but sometimes a mothers decision is really biased, and really depends on effects of hormones,situation the usual stuff... as well as this you have to look at the knowledge of the mother, does she know all the resulting possibilities of the situation and all that.. theres a lot of issues, and although i still believe the end choice is the mothers, they should still be notified about some of the other small probabilities... not many teenagers/young adults who have pregnancies know much about what happens when an abortion goes wrong..
What DOES happen when an abortion goes wrong? *curiousity killed the cat* But heck.. I'm curious.
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drago di giada
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
So if you had a wife and then you considered the possibility to have a child and you both agreed and then had sex. Then several weeks later she had an abortion and went off with another guy. Would you still hold this view?
lol, not a possibility seeing as how I'm a woman..
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by drago di giada)
What DOES happen when an abortion goes wrong? *curiousity killed the cat* But heck.. I'm curious.
They come out deformed looking like something a bit like Alien, a bit of an exaggeration, but it's not a pretty site.
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Helenia
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(Original post by drago di giada)
Is it possible for an aborted fetus to be born alive? Seriously.. if a fetus is aborted then it is killed.. end of story.. right?
I was under that impression; that it was killed before being delivered - of course it has to be born, to get out of the mother's uterus, but it would be born dead.

Given that nearly all abortions occur before 20 weeks, the foetus could not survive outside the uterus anyway - it is not developed enough.
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BloodyValentine
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(Original post by Helenia)
I was under that impression; that it was killed before being delivered - of course it has to be born, to get out of the mother's uterus, but it would be born dead.

Given that nearly all abortions occur before 20 weeks, the foetus could not survive outside the uterus anyway - it is not developed enough.

Speaking to the Scotland on Sunday newspaper, Lord Steel said: "If it's simply the decision of the mother then the limit should be 12 weeks. I personally believe it's likely to happen.

"When we introduced the Act it was always the intention that the operation should be carried out as early as possible.

"Advances in medical technology mean that a large number of problems and abnormalities are now detectable at an earlier stage than they were in previous years. Also, a foetus can survive at an earlier stage than it could in the past."

There are two types of abortion medical (using drugs) and surgical (using surgery) its in the second one that occasionaly in very rare cases foetus' are born alive, here's the definition taken from the site someone else posted (viviki?)
First, the cervix is dilated. Then, by either MVA (manual vacuum aspiration) or D&C (dilation and curettage), the uterus is emptied of the pregnancy. This is done for first trimester pregnancies. For second trimester pregnancies, a 2-day procedure is required.

the abortion debate has opened up again because of these new pictures
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3846525.stm

i hope that explains pretty much everything
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drago di giada
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(Original post by Helenia)
I was under that impression; that it was killed before being delivered - of course it has to be born, to get out of the mother's uterus, but it would be born dead.

Given that nearly all abortions occur before 20 weeks, the foetus could not survive outside the uterus anyway - it is not developed enough.
The fetus is indeed born after it is aborted.. but its right after, the doctor induces labor to get rid of it. If it were born alive, it would die.. most likely.. instantly because it does not have the lungs to breathe, the brain to think, or the mouth to eat with. It would die.
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Amb1
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Are many very premature babies actually "born" or do the doctors perform cesarian (sp?)?? If the mothers were left to actually give birth to the babies they would not survive the physical stress of being born.

Just wanting to clarify if people mean "born" or "sugically delivered by doctors" when they say babies can survive if they are 'born' at x number of weeks.
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BloodyValentine
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(Original post by drago di giada)
The fetus is indeed born after it is aborted.. but its right after, the doctor induces labor to get rid of it. If it were born alive, it would die.. most likely.. instantly because it does not have the lungs to breathe, the brain to think, or the mouth to eat with. It would die.
yes but the point once it is "surgically delivered by doctors" it could actually survive if it were put on a life support system. Is it morally right to let it die since to anybody's standard's it is a live human being and we're just letting it die because it wasn't wanted in the first place. That said prematurely "born" babies (i.e those that are wanted) often develop either cerebral problems (mentally ******ed etc...) or spinal deformities (the spinal bones don't interlock together properly) i think i've said this before but i can't remember if it was on a similar thread or not
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Amb1
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(Original post by BloodyValentine)
yes but the point once it is "surgically delivered by doctors" it could actually survive if it were put on a life support system. Is it morally right to let it die since to anybody's standard's it is a live human being and we're just letting it die because it wasn't wanted in the first place. That said prematurely "born" babies (i.e those that are wanted) often develop either cerebral problems (mentally ******ed etc...) or spinal deformities (the spinal bones don't interlock together properly) i think i've said this before but i can't remember if it was on a similar thread or not
So this part of the debate can be compared to chosing whether to be resusitated or not...?
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