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what if the aborted fetus is born alive watch

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    (Original post by Amb1)
    Are many very premature babies actually "born" or do the doctors perform cesarian (sp?)?? If the mothers were left to actually give birth to the babies they would not survive the physical stress of being born.

    Just wanting to clarify if people mean "born" or "sugically delivered by doctors" when they say babies can survive if they are 'born' at x number of weeks.
    I've never heard of a caesarian taking place to remove a terminated foetus.

    It might have happened in a few cases (and has certainly happened in cases of still birth were a vaginal delivery isn't a safe option) but usually

    ****stop reading here if you're eating/feeling delicate***

    the terminated foetus is dismembered using keyhole surgery type techniques via tha vagina before the peices are removed.

    If the foetus isn't that big it's usually delivered "normally" through induced labour...not a pleasant experience
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    no i'm just saying that if the foetus/baby has survived multiple attempts to kill it shouldn't it be given a chance to life. The EU does not to seem to think so (see other thread on abortion/death penalty/euthanasia)
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    Imagine if you somehow found out you were supposed to be aborted but you survived the procedure.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    I've never heard of a caesarian taking place to remove a terminated foetus.
    I meant with people who don't want to terminate the pregnancy. With regard to the argument of pro-lifers that if a baby was born naturally premature at x weeks it could survive. Therefore abortions shouldn't be permitted at this time. But I doubt that babies delivered naturally this early would survive the birth. So it's only because of quite intense medical intervention that they would survive. (Sorry I'm having one of those days where I can't seem to explain things very well - I shouldn't really be on here today!!)
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    It does happen, some babies are aborted alive.

    Although really it is better that it isn't saved. Firslty the mother wanted it aborted and you cannot go against her wishes, but as someone mentioned earlier the baby is very likely be handicapped both mental and physical. I've seen pictures of babies who've had their legs ripped off, covered in blood who are then taken to the hopsital incinorator after they have died.

    Anyway, what happens is the baby is *apprently* given food, water, warmth so that it dies comfortable. The will be no effort to keep the child alive.

    I believe such awful cases happens later on in the pregnancy, in which case abortions shouldn't be carried out at this time. I am very pro-choice, but at five months the mother has had plenty of time to decide whether she wants to keep the child. You could argue that some mothers aren't aware they are pregnant until five months, in which I would say they may as well carry it for another four months and then put it up for adoption.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    I meant with people who don't want to terminate the pregnancy. With regard to the argument of pro-lifers that if a baby was born naturally premature at x weeks it could survive. Therefore abortions shouldn't be permitted at this time. But I doubt that babies delivered naturally this early would survive the birth. So it's only because of quite intense medical intervention that they would survive. (Sorry I'm having one of those days where I can't seem to explain things very well - I shouldn't really be on here today!!)
    No you're explaining things fine - I just missed the part about premature babies in your first post (me having one of those days not you )

    The only case I've known about in any depth was a normal vaginal delivery
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A127234 (warning don't read this if you're feeling depressed - it's incredibly touching)
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    lol, not a possibility seeing as how I'm a woman..
    Okay I'll ask you the other question which gets asked.

    A pregnant mother who wishes to carry out the child gets stabbed in her womb, and as a result the child dies instantly. Say this happened to you. Would you be happy for the defendent to be charged with grevious bodily hamr? If not what should the charge be?
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Okay I'll ask you the other question which gets asked.

    A pregnant mother who wishes to carry out the child gets stabbed in her womb, and as a result the child dies instantly. Say this happened to you. Would you be happy for the defendent to be charged with grevious bodily hamr? If not what should the charge be?
    Of course I would charge for bodily harm. If I wanted to keep the baby why wouldn't I? Its another story when the woman doesn't wish to keep it. But what does this have to do with anything? :confused:
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    yes but the point once it is "surgically delivered by doctors" it could actually survive if it were put on a life support system. Is it morally right to let it die since to anybody's standard's it is a live human being and we're just letting it die because it wasn't wanted in the first place. That said prematurely "born" babies (i.e those that are wanted) often develop either cerebral problems (mentally retarded etc...) or spinal deformities (the spinal bones don't interlock together properly) i think i've said this before but i can't remember if it was on a similar thread or not
    How could it continue to live on a life-support system? Its not humanly possible. When the fetus is aborted it occurs at a certain time in term. After the fetus reaches a certain phase of development it cannot be aborted. Most doctors I know would say they would not do it for some reason. When the fetus is aborted it is too young to survive.. it is not even developed.. it cannot breathe, so therefore it still needs the umbilical chord and placenta.. it isn't possible.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Okay I'll ask you the other question which gets asked.

    A pregnant mother who wishes to carry out the child gets stabbed in her womb, and as a result the child dies instantly. Say this happened to you. Would you be happy for the defendent to be charged with grevious bodily hamr? If not what should the charge be?
    i dont do law or anything...but i suppose that it is arguable that the perpetrator of the crime goes down for murder (the baby is living in the womb).but wouldn't other factors come into play - like if the woman was visibly pregnant (ie huge bump) or not - because then the guy could plead either involuntary or voluntary manslaughter?
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    (Original post by shishi nee)
    i dont do law or anything...but i suppose that it is arguable that the perpetrator of the crime goes down for murder (the baby is living in the womb).but wouldn't other factors come into play - like if the woman was visibly pregnant (ie huge bump) or not - because then the guy could plead either involuntary or voluntary manslaughter?
    good point.
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    (Original post by shishi nee)
    i dont do law or anything...but i suppose that it is arguable that the perpetrator of the crime goes down for murder (the baby is living in the womb).but wouldn't other factors come into play - like if the woman was visibly pregnant (ie huge bump) or not - because then the guy could plead either involuntary or voluntary manslaughter?
    My point is that many pro-choice people think that they should be able to do what they like with the child but then if someone comes along and stabs the unborn child, they think they should be done for murder. You can not have two views simultaneously!
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    My point is that many pro-choice people think that they should be able to do what they like with the child but then if someone comes along and stabs the unborn child, they think they should be done for murder. You can not have two views simultaneously!
    Then you should have said.. "If the mother does not wish to carry the child." You said she wanted the child. So because she wants the child then of course she's going to go for manslaughter. SHE WANTED THE CHILD!.. merf?
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    So because she wants the child then of course she's going to go for manslaughter. SHE WANTED THE CHILD!.. merf?
    You see. So really those who do believe in abortion are murderers. The logic can't work both ways. Merf??
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Then you should have said.. "If the mother does not wish to carry the child." You said she wanted the child. So because she wants the child then of course she's going to go for manslaughter. SHE WANTED THE CHILD!.. merf?
    hahahaa!! cool it, boys!
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    You see. So really those who do believe in abortion are murderers. The logic can't work both ways. Merf??
    Of course it can. If she WANTED the baby and someone stabbed her killing the baby then it could be considered manslaughter.. she wanted the child! If she didn't and she got an abortion she obviously didn't want the child.. so therefore its not manslaughter.
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    (Original post by shishi nee)
    hahahaa!! cool it, boys!

    lol, one's a female *mesa* ones a male...
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Of course it can. If she WANTED the baby and someone stabbed her killing the baby then it could be considered manslaughter.. she wanted the child! If she didn't and she got an abortion she obviously didn't want the child.. so therefore its not manslaughter.
    So it's not considered murder if she doesn't wants it but if she does want it is considered murder? So what is murder? A bit like playing God really.

    What if I was an extreme Hindu and found that my child is a girl and wanted a boy? If I got rid of it would that be justified because I did not want it?

    So if I steal something that later I did not want (maybe I was mistaken of the nature of the goods) and then decided to sell them off I can't be found guilty of theft using the logic of your statement above. Because it can't be theft because I did not want them!
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    So it's not considered murder if she doesn't wants it but if she does want it is considered murder? So what is murder? A bit like playing God really.

    What if I was an extreme Hindu and found that my child is a girl and wanted a boy? If I got rid of it would that be justified because I did not want it?

    So if I steal something that later I did not want (maybe I was mistaken of the nature of the goods) and then decided to sell them off I can't be found guilty of theft using the logic of your statement above. Because it can't be theft because I did not want them!

    grrr.. *glares*
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    From what I've read so far I get the impression that many people don't seem to understand that at or close to 24 weeks (the legal limit for abortion) many babies can survive. Babies which were to be aborted close to this stage have been known to survive for several hours, and babies which were not to be aborted but were born very prematurely have survived from this stage. Yes, they need life support but so does any premature baby, but the fact that some have been "earmarked" by their parents means that some babies are given all the support available, from which many will survive, while others are simply either left to die in a dish on the operating table or "helped along the way" with drugs.
 
 
 
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