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what if the aborted fetus is born alive watch

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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Forgive me if I'm wrong.. but doesn't pedantic mean "Marked by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules."

    As well as.. Pedant..."someone who makes a great show of learning or scholarship.. someone who emphasizes trivial details of learning."
    according to the oed it is 1. a person who insists to the adherence of formal rules or literal meaning at the expense of a wider view
    2. a person who rates academic learning or technical knowledge above everything

    stop squabbling its getting this debate nowhere
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    (Original post by CalumanGael)
    I meant it not in the scholastic sense but that of nit picking as it were.
    How was I nit-picking?
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    well all.. I'm off to work anyways.. I'll be back in a while.. Buh byeZ.
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Sarcasm will get you no-where.
    While you may feel he was being sarcastic I believe s/he has a slight point. You do hear the rape argument, and we all know the argument, and I do not condone the criminal act, but it is sometimes overstated.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    While you may feel he was being sarcastic I believe s/he has a slight point. You do hear the rape argument, and we all know the argument, and I do not condone the criminal act, but it is sometimes overstated.
    Still.. if a woman IS raped..and DOES become pregnant.. no one should expect or try to make her keep the child if she chooses not to.
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    Surely we should first ask the question why the foetus would be aborted in the first place and if that is right. This would then lead to the answer of the question as being the same as if the question was over the issue of the termination of the foestus inside the womb as the baby would be in the same state and the treatment of it should reflect on this. An analogy would be that a murderer is still a murderer even if they have not been convicted.


    Note, I have not read the whole of the tread as am short for time so i apologise if i have repeated something that has already been said.
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    (Original post by fly005)
    Note, I have not read the whole of the tread as am short for time so i apologise if i have repeated something that has already been said.
    hmm.. yeah.
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    Pointless comment...
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    ..must learn to read/scan all posts on a thread in order to put up a GOOD argument.. seeing as how.. everything you said was already used.. at least twice.
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Still.. if a woman IS raped..and DOES become pregnant.. no one should expect or try to make her keep the child if she chooses not to.
    This was the position before abortion was legalised (albeit with restrictions) in 'this' country. Many people who would be against social abortion would be okay with the rape argument. This is understandable.

    However, if you have been raped you must seek help ASAP. Don't just leave it and wait for a bump to appear or tell tale signs. As time moves on with advances in medicine easily available for the public, there is less and less reason to just wait and see.

    Not all rapes will end up with the secreted fluid inside the female reproductive organs.

    There is little excuse for late abortions. This is what makes people go against abortion, is because of abuse of priviledges. I have seen an aborted 22 week old foetus. I wish to know why it was this late.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    There is little excuse for late abortions. This is what makes people go against abortion, is because of abuse of priviledges. I have seen an aborted 22 week old foetus. I wish to know why it was this late.
    Pure stupidity.
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Pure stupidity.

    mmmm good debating however i agree though i think that the number of weeks allowed for abortion should be lowered i don't think its quite that easy to pick yourself up from being raped to go and get a pill/medical abortion. Also i read somewhere that your mind blocks out certain periods that are just too traumatic does anybody know anything more on that one (psychologists anywhere?) ?
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    People refer to "social reasons" as if they're not real and don't count. The term, "Social reasons", doesn't just refer to the woman 'not being able to go out clubbing anymore'! The social implications of having a baby are absolutely phenominal (sp?) and being forced into a full pregnancy, giving birth and dealing with a baby/child/adolescent...... when not of sound mind or financially comfortable or in a stable relationship, without the support of family + friends, with a stumped education, and unable to deal with the trauma of adoption won't do the child or the parents any good at all.
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    Pure stupidity.
    What are you saying here? Are you agreeing that aborting at 22 weeks is stupid, or calling the poster stupid for asking a perfectly sensible question which you decided not to answer?

    As for your previous comment of "everything you said was already used.. at least twice.", I see little evidence of this. You seem to try and avoid actually giving any reasonable argument wherever possible.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    People refer to "social reasons" as if they're not real and don't count. The term, "Social reasons", doesn't just refer to the woman 'not being able to go out clubbing anymore'! The social implications of having a baby are absolutely phenominal (sp?) and being forced into a full pregnancy, giving birth and dealing with a baby/child/adolescent...... when not of sound mind or financially comfortable or in a stable relationship, without the support of family + friends, with a stumped education, and unable to deal with the trauma of adoption won't do the child or the parents any good at all.
    Very well, but women generally know all this before they get pregnant. If they later decide it was a "mistake" or that it had been an "accident", then tough ****, that's no excuse for killing a baby. Heck, how is it any different to them deciding it was a "mistake" after it was born? Would it still be okay to kill it then? If it's on an operating table, apparently so, as babies which were "earmarked" for abortion are simply left to die or "helped" to die if delivered alive.
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    (Original post by Amb1)
    People refer to "social reasons" as if they're not real and don't count. The term, "Social reasons", doesn't just refer to the woman 'not being able to go out clubbing anymore'! The social implications of having a baby are absolutely phenominal (sp?) and being forced into a full pregnancy, giving birth and dealing with a baby/child/adolescent...... when not of sound mind or financially comfortable or in a stable relationship, without the support of family + friends, with a stumped education, and unable to deal with the trauma of adoption won't do the child or the parents any good at all.
    I realise that everyone is different as it takes all sort of people to make the world. But when I hear about these detrimental effects on the mother it makes me think whether they should ever contemplate sexual intercourse at all to avoid being reckless as to becoming pregnant accidently. Or for that matter if they are really suitable to have children at all for their own safety and the child's.

    It's not always the case that adopted children have no life. Many adopted children have lead very successful careers. If you're not in a stable reltionship you must not have a child, it doesn't help keep the relationship going and there's a chance you will make it worse by having a termination anyway.

    Not of sound mind is an arguable phrase as to its meaning. Does it mean they become physchotic or something?

    As for support you should not really be asking for friends help. Once when I was in Windsor visiting two friends, the mother and father and one of my friends went out clubbing while me and my other friend got lumbered with the tolder. They went out clubbing. I'm sorry but hasn't she heard of a babysitter? People just think they know what they are doing and know sweet FA. When you have a child you have responsibilities, just like as if you were to have sex.

    And the education point. This differs on individual situations. There are plenty of opportunities to go into education after school with so many options available, to help you get better jobs. I know someone who is in her mid-30s and went back to college to study some part time qualifications to further her career in child care. There is little excuse. If you can't afford the coursed, it depends on the benefits you receive.

    Also there are these places you can send your youngster to whilst you get out to work or in education. I forget what they call them but it's not like the same burden you had decades ago is it?

    As for trauma well shouldn't you be held responsible for your own actions? I don't see why you should escape liability.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    What are you saying here? Are you agreeing that aborting at 22 weeks is stupid, or calling the poster stupid for asking a perfectly sensible question which you decided not to answer?

    As for your previous comment of "everything you said was already used.. at least twice.", I see little evidence of this. You seem to try and avoid actually giving any reasonable argument wherever possible.
    If you would have looked at the bold sentence I put in the quote you would have been able to figure out that I was using the comment.. "Pure Stupidity," as an answer to why a fetus would be aborted after 22 weeks. NOT calling him stupid.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Very well, but women generally know all this before they get pregnant. If they later decide it was a "mistake" or that it had been an "accident", then tough ****, that's no excuse for killing a baby. Heck, how is it any different to them deciding it was a "mistake" after it was born? Would it still be okay to kill it then? If it's on an operating table, apparently so, as babies which were "earmarked" for abortion are simply left to die or "helped" to die if delivered alive.
    1-protection (condoms mainly) is the MAN's responsibility.. thats how it is looked at here.

    2-It takes two to tango.. so its not ONLY the woman's fault if she "gets pregnant."

    3-I think most mothers would opt to adopt children out if they were born alive because they ended up giving birth anyways.. (IMO.. thats what I'd do)

    4-And who are we to decide whether or not a fit/unfit mother should have to go through the pain, and discomfort of having a child if she doesn't want it? I say its up to her. SHE is the one that has to live with the shame, SHE is the one that has to live with the pain of knowing she could have had something and doesn't. Let HER make the decision.
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    (Original post by drago di giada)
    1-protection (condoms mainly) is the MAN's responsibility.. thats how it is looked at here.

    2-It takes two to tango.. so its not ONLY the woman's fault if she "gets pregnant."

    3-I think most mothers would opt to adopt children out if they were born alive because they ended up giving birth anyways.. (IMO.. thats what I'd do)

    4-And who are we to decide whether or not a fit/unfit mother should have to go through the pain, and discomfort of having a child if she doesn't want it? I say its up to her. SHE is the one that has to live with the shame, SHE is the one that has to live with the pain of knowing she could have had something and doesn't. Let HER make the decision.
    1. This is an oversimplification. It's not unknown that girls work on guys even if they are not too willing as they know they do not have any protection on them, such as trying to persuade them not to do so, but give in. Yes I know this has happened to someone in real life and the reasons for giving in were understandable. You could use femidoms?

    2. True and I'm not sure if the user who have responded has actually disputed that point.

    3. Well I think most of them will. What would you feel like when your child has learnt that your mother tried to abort you. Some would probably take criminal against you perhaps resulting in death.

    4. Doctors could decide? Sure many abortees will be ashamed but with people's views on this matter becoming more lenient do you think there will be the same proportion of abortees who still feel ashemed? As for discomfort what if the child was born and have serious conditions not necessarily mental ones such as CF? Many children are born that can be rather unpleasant to bring up, but life is not perfect.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    I realise that everyone is different as it takes all sort of people to make the world. But when I hear about these detrimental effects on the mother it makes me think whether they should ever contemplate sexual intercourse at all to avoid being reckless as to becoming pregnant accidently.
    I agree. But it happens. Of course there should be better education and young people should be taught to control themselves... but in the past and at the moment it just doesn't get through for one reason or another.
    Or for that matter if they are really suitable to have children at all for their own safety and the child's.
    Exactly. Whatever the resons are for the girl becomming pregnant (even if it is down to ignorance/stupidity...) terminating the pregnancy can be the best way to avoid these safety risks?

    It's not always the case that adopted children have no life. Many adopted children have lead very successful careers.
    Did I say that adopted children have no life?? I just think that adoption can cause a lot of confusion, stress and pain for the child, the adoptive family and the biological parents.
    If you're not in a stable reltionship you must not have a child, it doesn't help keep the relationship going
    So in the event of a pregnancy (for whatever reason) termination should be available.
    there's a chance you will make it worse by having a termination.
    There's always a chance.

    Not of sound mind is an arguable phrase as to its meaning. Does it mean they become physchotic or something?
    What I meant by it was unable to cope with the situation, being confused, becoming depressed...

    As for support you should not really be asking for friends help.
    Couples who have babies invariably need support from family and friends. Not just in a practical (eg babysitting) way but emotionally and sometimes even financially.
    Once when I was in Windsor visiting two friends, the mother and father and one of my friends went out clubbing while me and my other friend got lumbered with the tolder. They went out clubbing. I'm sorry but hasn't she heard of a babysitter?
    Sometimes parents don't want to leave their children with complete strangers when they need some time for themselves. I'd much prefer to leave my child with someone who I know and trust.
 
 
 
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