I'm a conservative; the tory government are not Watch

fallen_acorns
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#21
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#21
Its because the tories are socially liberal, not conservative. They are fiscally conservative (free markets, limmited borrowing/debt etc) but socially they are blarite-liberal.

Think about it more like this (very very rough guide):

In the early 20th century you have mostly conservative thinking, with all political voices being almost entirely socially conservative with the liberals just being slightly to the left of the center ground, which by the average of the last 100 years was very conservative.

In the mid-late 20th century, the liberals really push to the left socially and establish liberal social thinking based around equality, especially between sexes/classes and races, diversity, drugs and pop culture and such starts to enter in as well. But The conservative political voices stay firmly conservative and against this progress.

In the early 21st century the liberal minded politicans finally win the battle. Blair destroys the tory party and during the following 13 years, the conservative political voices entirely cede the social arguements.. culturally the left wins on all fronts, and the right moves in line. It becoems the mirror of what it was in the early 20th century, just flipped, with everyone on the left, but the conservatives always making sure they are slightly-right of labour.

In the 2010s, the tory party stays to the late 20th/early21st century idea of liberal social policy.. but the influencial left voices shift even more to the left, in the form of identity poltiics and the radical pushes we see in both the US/Europe. They again build a gap in terms of social thinking between them and the right, and by comparison the right looks 'right', even though in the big picture of the last 100 years they are very much on the left.

People move slower though, and there are still a lot of traditionally socially conservative people in the country. They generally hold the following types of opinions:

Pro: local communities, religion, tradition, celebration of national identity, marriage and strong families,
Anti: identity politics, mass immigration, diversity, trans stuff + gay marriage (to a degree), abortion (to a degree)
etc.

People who hold these social beliefs have found themselves largely politically homeless because their choice is between:

Labour - Economically and socially very progressive/leftwing
Conservative - Economically conservative, socially progressive.

They have no conservative social choice.. but they vote tory because economically it matches them, and its still 'more left' than Labour. But they end up voting for a party that supports diversity, legalised same sex marriage, encourages no-fault devorce, supports mass immigration, etc.

---

Your housing example is a good example of the conflict between economic and social conservativism.

Econmically they are acting in a very free-market and conservative fashion currently.. but social conservatism is being let down by not providing the opertuntity for young people to own their own home, a great step towards starting a family, one of the cornerstones of conservative social values...

What happens in the tory party when economic conservatism and social conservatism clash? The economic case wins every time.

Same with immigration. While reducing mass immigration suits social conservatives, it suits economic conservatives to keep it open.. and economics always wins.

---

Don't get me wrong, a socially-conservative conservative party is stupid when it comes to elections, they are far better off just hanging to the right of Labour.. in a FPTP system its the optimal thing to do, and given that the tories are all about winning power, of course they are going to take the optimal route. But it does leave socailly conservative people without a voice, and it will be that way until FPTP is gone.

For example, the majority of the public has been against mass immigration since it came in. Yet we still have it? Why? Because it suits both parties to tow the same line, with the torries just hanging a bit to the left of Labour. If our system was actually capable of reflecting how socially conservative much of the public is.. we would have a very different goverment right now.
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RealLifeJoker
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#22
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#22
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Its because the tories are socially liberal, not conservative. They are fiscally conservative (free markets, limmited borrowing/debt etc) but socially they are blarite-liberal.

Think about it more like this (very very rough guide):

In the early 20th century you have mostly conservative thinking, with all political voices being almost entirely socially conservative with the liberals just being slightly to the left of the center ground, which by the average of the last 100 years was very conservative.

In the mid-late 20th century, the liberals really push to the left socially and establish liberal social thinking based around equality, especially between sexes/classes and races, diversity, drugs and pop culture and such starts to enter in as well. But The conservative political voices stay firmly conservative and against this progress.

In the early 21st century the liberal minded politicans finally win the battle. Blair destroys the tory party and during the following 13 years, the conservative political voices entirely cede the social arguements.. culturally the left wins on all fronts, and the right moves in line. It becoems the mirror of what it was in the early 20th century, just flipped, with everyone on the left, but the conservatives always making sure they are slightly-right of labour.

In the 2010s, the tory party stays to the late 20th/early21st century idea of liberal social policy.. but the influencial left voices shift even more to the left, in the form of identity poltiics and the radical pushes we see in both the US/Europe. They again build a gap in terms of social thinking between them and the right, and by comparison the right looks 'right', even though in the big picture of the last 100 years they are very much on the left.

People move slower though, and there are still a lot of traditionally socially conservative people in the country. They generally hold the following types of opinions:

Pro: local communities, religion, tradition, celebration of national identity, marriage and strong families,
Anti: identity politics, mass immigration, diversity, trans stuff + gay marriage (to a degree), abortion (to a degree)
etc.

People who hold these social beliefs have found themselves largely politically homeless because their choice is between:

Labour - Economically and socially very progressive/leftwing
Conservative - Economically conservative, socially progressive.

They have no conservative social choice.. but they vote tory because economically it matches them, and its still 'more left' than Labour. But they end up voting for a party that supports diversity, legalised same sex marriage, encourages no-fault devorce, supports mass immigration, etc.

---

Your housing example is a good example of the conflict between economic and social conservativism.

Econmically they are acting in a very free-market and conservative fashion currently.. but social conservatism is being let down by not providing the opertuntity for young people to own their own home, a great step towards starting a family, one of the cornerstones of conservative social values...

What happens in the tory party when economic conservatism and social conservatism clash? The economic case wins every time.

Same with immigration. While reducing mass immigration suits social conservatives, it suits economic conservatives to keep it open.. and economics always wins.

---

Don't get me wrong, a socially-conservative conservative party is stupid when it comes to elections, they are far better off just hanging to the right of Labour.. in a FPTP system its the optimal thing to do, and given that the tories are all about winning power, of course they are going to take the optimal route. But it does leave socailly conservative people without a voice, and it will be that way until FPTP is gone.

For example, the majority of the public has been against mass immigration since it came in. Yet we still have it? Why? Because it suits both parties to tow the same line, with the torries just hanging a bit to the left of Labour. If our system was actually capable of reflecting how socially conservative much of the public is.. we would have a very different goverment right now.
Blair’s Labour was more right wing than Cameron’s Tory party.

Jacob Rees-Mogg, Priti Patel, Steve Baker, David TC Davies are socially conservatives and he’d make terrific leaders
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