Male reproductive rights

Razzor19821

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Ok I'll start by saying that this discussion is about a specific issue and this issue is when before a man and woman have sex they discuss birth control and make sure either the pill is being used by the woman or the man is wearing a condom. Both have spoke about what would happen if the form of contraception fails and both agree that neither want a baby at this time in their lives. One of those forms of contraception goes on to fail and the female then decides she wants to keep the child but the man doesn't. I fully agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a termination as he also shouldn't be able to force a woman to carry a child to full term however tough that situation might be for the man. I do believe though that if contraception has been used and both parties have discussed contraception failure and both said that having a child isn't an option then if the woman chooses to keep the child then she shouldn't expect child support from the man. I hope that makes sense. I've nothing against woman and I'm in no way sexist but if a woman can never be forced to accept financial responsibility for a child then why should a man? I'll say it again, im talking about a situation where contraception has failed and the woman is fully aware that the man doesn't want a child.

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PHD2027

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whats your question?

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Razzor19821

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Do you think a man should be forced to pay child support in that situation or not?

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SHallowvale

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How do you prove it?

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Razzor19821

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I have it all on text message.

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Dheorl

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I personally think a man in such a situation should be able to get a court order of some sort for a termination.

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anarchism101

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This has been discussed on here before a while back. The most obvious objection is that, for some people, such as Catholics, abortion is not an option.

More significant, however, is that this is not comparing like for like (though there really aren't many ways to genuinely compare the position of the mother to the father, as it's comparing the carrier to the non-carrier). Choosing not to have a child at all is completely different to 'choosing' not to take any responsibility for a child that you have already had.

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Razzor19821

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But in my situation we spoke before having sex and she told me that if the worst happened and she did get pregnant then she would have a termination so I already knew her stance on abortion. I should not be held accountable for a decision she has made.

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amylaraman

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(Original post by Razzor19821)
Ok I'll start by saying that this discussion is about a specific issue and this issue is when before a man and woman have sex they discuss birth control and make sure either the pill is being used by the woman or the man is wearing a condom. Both have spoke about what would happen if the form of contraception fails and both agree that neither want a baby at this time in their lives. One of those forms of contraception goes on to fail and the female then decides she wants to keep the child but the man doesn't. I fully agree that a man shouldn't be able to force a termination as he also shouldn't be able to force a woman to carry a child to full term however tough that situation might be for the man. I do believe though that if contraception has been used and both parties have discussed contraception failure and both said that having a child isn't an option then if the woman chooses to keep the child then she shouldn't expect child support from the man. I hope that makes sense. I've nothing against woman and I'm in no way sexist but if a woman can never be forced to accept financial responsibility for a child then why should a man? I'll say it again, im talking about a situation where contraception has failed and the woman is fully aware that the man doesn't want a child.

I've heard that apparently a lot of men do not actually end up paying child support. Also there is 1 country where a man can withdraw parental rights before the birth and will not face financial responsibility. No I do not think the man should have to pay if he already said he doesn't want a child. if she wants to keep it she should pay for it.

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Razzor19821

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Well she has said she doesn't want anything from me but I hate knowing she could come for money at any time. I just think societies attitude towards this matter needs to change. It's not that I don't want kids, I can't wait to be a dad but I want to choose to be a father when I know I can be there for the child and give them the best upbringing i can

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TurboCretin

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(Original post by anarchism101)
This has been discussed on here before a while back. The most obvious objection is that, for some people, such as Catholics, abortion is not an option.

More significant, however, is that this is not comparing like for like (though there really aren't many ways to genuinely compare the position of the mother to the father, as it's comparing the carrier to the non-carrier). Choosing not to have a child at all is completely different to 'choosing' not to take any responsibility for a child that you have already had.

Could you explain why, from the father's perspective, this makes a difference to the scenario set out by OP?

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Pegasus2

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(Original post by Razzor19821)
Well she has said she doesn't want anything from me but I hate knowing she could come for money at any time. I just think societies attitude towards this matter needs to change. It's not that I don't want kids, I can't wait to be a dad but I want to choose to be a father when I know I can be there for the child and give them the best upbringing i can

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Well, not everything goes to plan in life, things happen at times when you would rather they would not. This is simply a fact of life. Some people become great dad's even with unplanned stuff. Think hard about it.

If you would feel better you could get a signed letter from her relinquishing you from financial responsibility. I'm not sure how well it would stand up but it's somthing.

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SHallowvale

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(Original post by Razzor19821)
I have it all on text message.

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No you don't.

You haven't explained how anyone can actually prove that:

1. Contraception was used.
2. Contraception failed.
3. Prior to the sex, both partners agreed that they didn't want a child.

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Razzor19821

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Because in the text messages I said to her "you told me you were on the pill and you told me you'd have a termination if you did get pregnant, are you denying that?" To which her reply was "no I'm not denying it". The fact that she admits she said she was on the pill and is now pregnant means that either she lied about the pill or contraception failed.

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dairychocolate

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The Swedish Liberal Party's youth wing actually proposed something like this a while ago. Have a look:

http://www.thelocal.se/20160304/let-...egal-abortions

It's an interesting topic. On a fundamental level, the argument of these people seems to be that, if a woman can choose to abort a child if she's not physically/financially/mentally ready to raise one, then men should be able to make a similar decision.

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Petrue

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As long as you're not listed on the child's birth certificate you do not hold any parental responsibility for the child. I don't believe in this case that the father should be forced to pay child support; and it in fact might be possible to sign away any parental rights? I know you can in the US but don't know about the UK.

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TurboCretin

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(Original post by Petrue)
As long as you're not listed on the child's birth certificate you do not hold any parental responsibility for the child. I don't believe in this case that the father should be forced to pay child support; and it in fact might be possible to sign away any parental rights? I know you can in the US but don't know about the UK.

I don't think you can do this in the UK. You can reduce the amount you pay through taking on more of the responsibility for care, and can negotiate reductions in times of financial hardship, but I'm not sure that you can make a binding decision not to pay child support. I'm not sure you can do this even by mutual agreement between the parents, although I could well be wrong on this.

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Alexion

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imo

if one of the parents doesn't want the child they shouldn't have to pay for it

regardless of whether it's intentionally conceived or not, it's the woman's choice whether to keep it but the man should have no responsibility to support if he's in favour of a termination.

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The Sexathlete

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Men should have the right to legally abort a child whereby he gives up all parental responsibility and in doing so loses all rights of access provided he does so before the legal term for abortion has been exceeded.

It's ridiculous to argue that a woman should bodily autonomy but not a man, given that a person's wealth is an extension of themselves.

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Razzor19821

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Well this is the situation I now find myself in. Plus she's expecting twins!

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