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Tesco, Asda & Primark clothing...
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Reply 20
well obviously.. but thats why you should buy well priced clothes made for a good wage.
Reply 22
SoundDevastation
well obviously.. but thats why you should buy well priced clothes made for a good wage.
And what clothes are they? From what company?
Reply 23
SoundDevastation
well obviously.. but thats why you should buy well priced clothes made for a good wage.
seriously...like who?
Reply 24
It completely depends on what one means by "exploitation": paying someone £1 a day when the average wage is 80p a day I (personally) would not call exploitation. The whole concept of 'fair trade' etc is so subjective. Although I think shops should publish more information so that people can make an informed choice.
When we did business ethics in RS we discovered that by buying clothes from Primark we're contributing to global warming! 
Something like the fields that should be used to grow crops are used to grow cotton and something else etc...I can't really remember but it's not just the terrible expoloitation of workers that it purports, it's global warming too! Pretty mad. It is awful really - but what do expect when we pay a couple of quid for a top? We know the people making it must have been paid pennies, yet because we're concerned about our own pockets, and because we feel so far removed from the plight of the workers, we don't care and buy it anyway. Whilst we may have a social conscience we often can't be bothered to act on it. It sucks 
Sometimes the argument is used that, if we didn't buy the clothes, these workers wouldn't be employed and wouldn't be getting any money - a rubbish wage is better than no wage. But actually, if we boycotted these companies, they'd have to change their policies, because money talks - if nobody was buying their clothes because of the way they treat their workers, they'd have to start paying them a little better.
The thing is, it's not just Primark and places that do this - at least Primark have the good grace to not charge the consumer very much for their clothes. Designer labels pay their workers probably what Primark pay them yet charge the consumer a ridiculous amount.
Surely there's gotta be some ethical people in business? Why the hell is it such a horrible proposition for them to actually pay a fair wage? They'd still be raking it in, they don't need to keep people in poverty in order to keep their coffers filled up.
Something like the fields that should be used to grow crops are used to grow cotton and something else etc...I can't really remember but it's not just the terrible expoloitation of workers that it purports, it's global warming too! Pretty mad. It is awful really - but what do expect when we pay a couple of quid for a top? We know the people making it must have been paid pennies, yet because we're concerned about our own pockets, and because we feel so far removed from the plight of the workers, we don't care and buy it anyway. Whilst we may have a social conscience we often can't be bothered to act on it. It sucks Sometimes the argument is used that, if we didn't buy the clothes, these workers wouldn't be employed and wouldn't be getting any money - a rubbish wage is better than no wage. But actually, if we boycotted these companies, they'd have to change their policies, because money talks - if nobody was buying their clothes because of the way they treat their workers, they'd have to start paying them a little better.
The thing is, it's not just Primark and places that do this - at least Primark have the good grace to not charge the consumer very much for their clothes. Designer labels pay their workers probably what Primark pay them yet charge the consumer a ridiculous amount.
Surely there's gotta be some ethical people in business? Why the hell is it such a horrible proposition for them to actually pay a fair wage? They'd still be raking it in, they don't need to keep people in poverty in order to keep their coffers filled up.
loopymeg
But from which companies, eh?
FlowerSarah
And what clothes are they? From what company?
thesuperficial
seriously...like who?
haha.. good point. What respectable companies are out there that sell t-shirts?
Well, like I said, American Apparel is the only company that I know of that don't make their clothes anywhere near these factories that we hear about. Although, that is not enough to judge whether American Apparel is treating it's employees right.
You all highlighted the problem though, how the **** are we supposed to know which companies are decent?
That is why Fair Trade is a very good thing.
Try Howies, Tam&Rob, Sandbag (awesome clothes!), Fresh!, Bamboo, Ting, THTC, People Tree, Tonic, Ethical Threads, Bishopston Trading, Traidcraft, http://www.soliloquyclothing.com/ <3...there are loads out there, all competitively priced. Fair Trade/Ethical/Organic etc does not have to be expensive!
Edit: if you want to know which companies are "decent" you can either look for official accreditation (i.e. the Fair trade mark, the soil association mark) or use a website or book, such as the Ethical Shoppers' Guide. Do a bit of research, you'll be suprised at what you find
Edit: if you want to know which companies are "decent" you can either look for official accreditation (i.e. the Fair trade mark, the soil association mark) or use a website or book, such as the Ethical Shoppers' Guide. Do a bit of research, you'll be suprised at what you find
AesopRock
You all highlighted the problem though, how the **** are we supposed to know which companies are decent?
That is why Fair Trade is a very good thing.
That is why Fair Trade is a very good thing.
Precisely. I'm sure there are quite a lot of people who think that they're doing good by only buying more expensive clothing, but the truth is that some companies just charge the consumer more money without passing any of the extra profit onto the workers.
Rather than boycotting shops like Primark - which will do no good, because of the sheer number of similar companies and the size of their customer base - we'd be better off appealing for a law or similar to make the shops make it clear how and where their clothes are made. Of course, we could go one step further and try to stop products made by exploitation from ever reaching our shelves, but that would be almost impossible to get going.
Jenski
Try Howies, Tam&Rob, Sandbag (awesome clothes!), Fresh!, Bamboo, Ting, THTC, People Tree, Tonic, Ethical Threads, Bishopston Trading, Traidcraft, http://www.soliloquyclothing.com/ <3...there are loads out there, all competitively priced. Fair Trade/Ethical/Organic etc does not have to be expensive!
Edit: if you want to know which companies are "decent" you can either look for official accreditation (i.e. the Fair trade mark, the soil association mark) or use a website or book, such as the Ethical Shoppers' Guide. Do a bit of research, you'll be suprised at what you find
Edit: if you want to know which companies are "decent" you can either look for official accreditation (i.e. the Fair trade mark, the soil association mark) or use a website or book, such as the Ethical Shoppers' Guide. Do a bit of research, you'll be suprised at what you find
Fair enough, but why should the consumer have the burden to research every company to see whether or not they have ethical policies? Also, I've never heard of any of those companies, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had very little stock that would fit me properly (being an awkward size/shape) - I mean it's hard enough to find a good selection of petite clothing as it is, let alone making sure that it's all Fair Trade.
What I'm trying to say is that is unfair to pass the ethical burden onto the consumer, especially since what is available from fair trading is very limited, and a lot of people may struggle to find things in those ranges to suit their needs. The unfortunate thing is that in general, human beings are selfish and lazy, and so you won't manage to get people to sacrifice their own "needs" and desires - or even put in very much effort - in an attempt to stamp out exploitation.
Reply 29
AesopRock
Well, like I said, American Apparel is the only company that I know of that don't make their clothes anywhere near these factories that we hear about. Although, that is not enough to judge whether American Apparel is treating it's employees right.
I read in a magazine that AA employees have perks like massages at the factory at which they work!! I call that treating 'em right
loopymeg
Fair enough, but why should the consumer have the burden to research every company to see whether or not they have ethical policies? Also, I've never heard of any of those companies, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had very little stock that would fit me properly (being an awkward size/shape) - I mean it's hard enough to find a good selection of petite clothing as it is, let alone making sure that it's all Fair Trade.
What I'm trying to say is that is unfair to pass the ethical burden onto the consumer, especially since what is available from fair trading is very limited, and a lot of people may struggle to find things in those ranges to suit their needs. The unfortunate thing is that in general, human beings are selfish and lazy, and so you won't manage to get people to sacrifice their own "needs" and desires - or even put in very much effort - in an attempt to stamp out exploitation.
What I'm trying to say is that is unfair to pass the ethical burden onto the consumer, especially since what is available from fair trading is very limited, and a lot of people may struggle to find things in those ranges to suit their needs. The unfortunate thing is that in general, human beings are selfish and lazy, and so you won't manage to get people to sacrifice their own "needs" and desires - or even put in very much effort - in an attempt to stamp out exploitation.
I agree, it is really difficult to find out who is the 'best'- how do you define best? A company using organic cotton may use slave labour whereas a company using deforested land may refuse to use air freight! There needs to be much better labelling and consumer awareness. For example, loads and loads of companies are "fair trade" (two words) but many are not "Fairtrade" (one word- i.e. have been certified by the Fairtrade Foundation, the green and blue person logo..).
And again, I agree that these companies are small (many are just starting out and have little custom, so have higher prices, and so the downwards spiral continues!) and so will have a limited range. It's a shame! I don't know of a solution apart from people of a more average size/shape purchasing more of their stock to raise their profits so they can expand into the smaller/larger/taller/petite markets.
Once more, I totally agree with your last point, albeit reluctantly. The apathy of the majority modern consumers really depresses me
I just hope I've shown that there are loads of really funky companies out there selling cool stuff with various ethical credentials. Check out some of their websites, you'll be pleasantly suprised
Jenski xxx
Jenski
Try Howies, Tam&Rob, Sandbag (awesome clothes!), Fresh!, Bamboo, Ting, THTC, People Tree, Tonic, Ethical Threads, Bishopston Trading, Traidcraft, http://www.soliloquyclothing.com/ <3...there are loads out there, all competitively priced. Fair Trade/Ethical/Organic etc does not have to be expensive!
Edit: if you want to know which companies are "decent" you can either look for official accreditation (i.e. the Fair trade mark, the soil association mark) or use a website or book, such as the Ethical Shoppers' Guide. Do a bit of research, you'll be suprised at what you find
Edit: if you want to know which companies are "decent" you can either look for official accreditation (i.e. the Fair trade mark, the soil association mark) or use a website or book, such as the Ethical Shoppers' Guide. Do a bit of research, you'll be suprised at what you find
Props. I'll be checking out all the companies you mentioned.
Reply 32
It is hardly exploitation; we don't force them to work, they take the jobs because it is the best option available to them, it's better than working in agriculture. It is a stage of economic development that every country has to go through, for example, Britain in the coal industry, where the conditions 80 years ago were just as bad, if not worse.
China, for example, is growing at an extremely high rate and that will bring with it a higher standard of living. There will always be poor countries and we would not be able to enjoy the quality of life we enjoy today if it weren't for 'exploited' labour.
If we don't buy the clothes, that will put hundreds of thousands of people out of work- little money is better than no money. Also, handing out higher wages is not cost effective and would make investing in the east pointless.
China, for example, is growing at an extremely high rate and that will bring with it a higher standard of living. There will always be poor countries and we would not be able to enjoy the quality of life we enjoy today if it weren't for 'exploited' labour.
If we don't buy the clothes, that will put hundreds of thousands of people out of work- little money is better than no money. Also, handing out higher wages is not cost effective and would make investing in the east pointless.
Reply 33
Gap isn't cheap by any means, and they've been known to have some of the worst workers' rights out there...
Reply 34
Yeah, everyone stop buying the clothes, then they will get no wage atall and die of starvation 
Unless pretty much every single person in the country stopped buying the clothes it would make no real difference- not enough to make the companies drastically alter their ways anyway. & lets face it, thats not going to happen. Sometimes people buy cheap clothes because they dont care where they come from, and sometimes people cant afford not to buy cheap clothes.
Either way, seeing as a complete boycott will never happen its better they get some wage than no wage atall.
Unless pretty much every single person in the country stopped buying the clothes it would make no real difference- not enough to make the companies drastically alter their ways anyway. & lets face it, thats not going to happen. Sometimes people buy cheap clothes because they dont care where they come from, and sometimes people cant afford not to buy cheap clothes.
Either way, seeing as a complete boycott will never happen its better they get some wage than no wage atall.
isn't American Apparell 'made in downtown LA' ot something? If so, they HAVE to pay more coz they need to adhere to US/California minimum wage laws (I'm assuming that they don't pay their employees significantly over the minimum wage just to be 'nice.') That said, it's pretty hard to live on US minimum wage in the US, though you'd be able to live quite lavishly on that money in, say, Vietnam.
In any case I'm yet to find stylish ethical clothing. Most of it looks like tat imo.
In any case I'm yet to find stylish ethical clothing. Most of it looks like tat imo.
Reply 37
minimo
isn't American Apparell 'made in downtown LA' ot something? If so, they HAVE to pay more coz they need to adhere to US/California minimum wage laws (I'm assuming that they don't pay their employees significantly over the minimum wage just to be 'nice.') That said, it's pretty hard to live on US minimum wage in the US, though you'd be able to live quite lavishly on that money in, say, Vietnam.
In any case I'm yet to find stylish ethical clothing. Most of it looks like tat imo.
In any case I'm yet to find stylish ethical clothing. Most of it looks like tat imo.
I haven't seen any nice stuff either. Only plain cotton tops with no stretch, urgh. I like to look stylish and not dressed like a kid in brightly-coloures t-shirts or the 'hippy' look
4p an hour? That's a new one, got a source?
What should we do? Pay then £4 an hour when their doctors only earn £1? ie. ****ing up their economies. Or we could boycott and put the workers out of their jobs, yeah go 0p an hour!
Before you start rabbiting on about how unethical these companies are why not read a book on economics or global development? Let's say we boycott "company A" until they raise wages then 2 things can happen:
1) they raise wages in developing countries thereby upsetting their fragile economies
2) they pull out entirely from developing countries and just employ people in developed countries because they're going to have to pay higher wages anyway might as well cut down other costs thereby completely cutting off developing countries.
Are those better ideas? Further to occurrence #1, what about people here? Many will be priced out of buying those now more expensive clothes so will look for cheaper alternatives (which will exist, you can't ban competition), thereby lowering the sales of "company A", meaning their prices will further increase for the same level of profit, reducing demand further and giving rise to more competition.
Sounds lovely doesn't it?
I hate hippies.
What should we do? Pay then £4 an hour when their doctors only earn £1? ie. ****ing up their economies. Or we could boycott and put the workers out of their jobs, yeah go 0p an hour!
Before you start rabbiting on about how unethical these companies are why not read a book on economics or global development? Let's say we boycott "company A" until they raise wages then 2 things can happen:
1) they raise wages in developing countries thereby upsetting their fragile economies
2) they pull out entirely from developing countries and just employ people in developed countries because they're going to have to pay higher wages anyway might as well cut down other costs thereby completely cutting off developing countries.
Are those better ideas? Further to occurrence #1, what about people here? Many will be priced out of buying those now more expensive clothes so will look for cheaper alternatives (which will exist, you can't ban competition), thereby lowering the sales of "company A", meaning their prices will further increase for the same level of profit, reducing demand further and giving rise to more competition.
Sounds lovely doesn't it?
I hate hippies.
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