Do you agree with the UKIP policy of making STEM subjects free?

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niteninja1
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UKIP want to make science, technology engineering maths and medicine free do you like this idea
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jambojim97
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As a non-STEM student with a clearly defined career path, yes I do. Like it or not, the majority of STEM subjects are vital to our economy, and STEM skills are in very high demand. There's no point glossing over it and saying that all degree subjects have equal prospects.

It will also be great for social mobility - people from disadvantaged backgrounds will be able to study profitable subjects without incurring ridiculous amounts of debt.
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user73867
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I don't think it should be for STEM subjects, it should be for any subject that has substantial demand in the jobs market. Whatever that happens to be.


If that happens to be not biology and medicine, that's good. If it's nursing and not chemistry, that's fine also.

Purely about supply and demand.

SS
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niteninja1
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(Original post by Supersaps)
I don't think it should be for STEM subjects, it should be for any subject that has substantial demand in the jobs market. Whatever that happens to be.


If that happens to be not biology and medicine, that's good. If it's nursing and not chemistry, that's fine also.

Purely about supply and demand.

SS
When they say medicine they also mean things such as nursing
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jambojim97
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(Original post by Supersaps)
I don't think it should be for STEM subjects, it should be for any subject that has substantial demand in the jobs market. Whatever that happens to be.


If that happens to be not biology and medicine, that's good. If it's nursing and not chemistry, that's fine also.

Purely about supply and demand.

SS
Actually, yes this is better. Although STEM subjects will take up the majority.
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gregy521
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No. Subsidised, absolutely. But most people are not cut out for a STEM career. Plain and simple. Maths is tough as nails for most people. Engineering is too loud and hands on for most people. Science is boring for most people. If the education was free, people would join a career that they would quite simply fail in. Like it or not, physicists, mathematicians, engineers, are very specialised people. Far more logical and articulate than most other people. Putting somebody else in those shoes would lead to very upset graduates.
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Kieranisda1
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If the labour party really were working class they'd have this policy
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Kieranisda1)
If the labour party really were working class they'd have this policy
yet the vast vast majority of people who do STEM subjects are not working class....

You'd basically see all the unis fill up of STEM students from middle class backgrounds.
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Kieranisda1
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(Original post by skeptical_john)
yet the vast vast majority of people who do STEM subjects are not working class....

You'd basically see all the unis fill up of STEM students from middle class backgrounds.
Every person from my 6th form going to study STEM subjects is very much working class, and it's not in a particularly rough area so it can't be the only one
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skeptical_john
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(Original post by Kieranisda1)
Every person from my 6th form going to study STEM subjects is very much working class, and it's not in a particularly rough area so it can't be the only one
They can now because of the fees on uni. This allows unis to have unlimited places unlike Scotland there are no fees and limits on places. This means most places get filled up by the middle class.
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Abstract_Prism
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I like the idea of university being free.

I don't like STEM elitism.

What am I to make of this?
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ValerieKR
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The problem you'll have is a lot of people not cut out for STEM courses will apply for those degrees and fail.
And some of the weaker unis will suddenly accept a lot more STEM applicants with EEE as the required grades, teach very poorly and pocket all the money the government gives them for it.

Edit: If there were some strong measures put out to deal with those I'd still disagree with it because of the anti-elitism backlash you'd get from the public (because of the only doing it to stronger unis) - it would damage UKIPs fanbase in that respect.

If it was a different party, they countered the main issues and they could escape that backlash I still wouldn't support it because eventually you're going to rile up tensions/issues of equality (imagine the 'you're going to be dead soon so you shouldn't get a vote in the EU referendum but rather than that it's 'you have to pay more to get a degree because the government values my course more'

There's just too many cans of worms for it to work in the real world - if it's introduced I can see it being un-introduced 4-5 years later


Edit 2: If you flatly decreased uni fees that would be much better - we know it pays off economically for the country in the long term, the problem is that the government just wants to stay in power and is therefore only interested in the short term
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RomeoSantos
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No I don't like the idea. I think the high cost tuition fees help keep the wealthy elite on the STEM courses well above the rest of society and I wouldn't like this to change.
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stereoashhh
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Aren't we struggling for educational funding as it is? Where's the money going to come from?

And please no one come in with banter and blindly claim it's from leaving the EU.
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ValerieKR
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(Original post by stereoashhh)
Aren't we struggling for educational funding as it is? Where's the money going to come from?

And please no one come in with banter and blindly claim it's from leaving the EU.
Almost every study ever shows that investing in education returns the same money back and them some long term (problem is that government only believes in short term because that's what keeps them in power - the government has enough money in its 'savings' to be able to do this ^) (like when the US suddenly found trillions of dollars to bail out wall street, and independently of that to go to Iraq, despite most public spending areas not being funded properly) (but for reasons I outlined above I don't think it should)
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nulli tertius
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Why is it better to have investment bankers and PR consultants with chemistry degrees than with history degrees?

The economy has no shortage of STEM graduates. They may not want to teach but, with the exception of Sir James Dyson, employers of STEM graduates do not complain about a shortage of candidates.

The people who complain about an inability to recruit are generally people who put "experience essential".
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Spur
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(Original post by Kieranisda1)
If the labour party really were working class they'd have this policy
Funny, I'm Labour and completely disagree with this. Someone who does a STEM degree benefits far more from his degree in terms of earnings after graduation then someone who did a non-STEM degree. Per the contributory principle, if you benefit a lot from something, you should put a lot into it. STEM is important of course, but I'm sure affluent STEM graduates can afford paying their fair share.
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Vikingninja
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Only with universities which have relatively high requirements and not medicine. Reason for this is because we want STEM students who will succeed and so a larger number of people in these areas will massively benefit them. However not medicine because we already have a large amount of doctors and students going for medicine, a large amount of money will need to be put into this but the NHS is already struggling with funding at the moment.
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inhuman
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(Original post by Supersaps)
I don't think it should be for STEM subjects, it should be for any subject that has substantial demand in the jobs market. Whatever that happens to be.


If that happens to be not biology and medicine, that's good. If it's nursing and not chemistry, that's fine also.

Purely about supply and demand.

SS
But so what?

If you go purely by supply and demand, a much more fair option would simply be to limit the number of places for certain degrees. That would be much more fair. Your idea would punish clever people interested in not-so demanded areas. Because every degree has its uses, and people will make use of them. The problem is people that go to uni because well it's what you do. You need a degree to be competitive so they just do something they like that may not necessarily have many direct applications.

Because in the end that's the problem. The market uses a degree as a signal of ability so to not be excluded you must have one. But that's vastly inefficient.

Reducing the number of graduates while simultaneously improving the opportunities of those without degrees would be a much better solution.
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username2808800
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(Original post by niteninja1)
UKIP want to make science, technology engineering maths and medicine free do you like this idea
Where do you think this money comes from? Heaven? Hard working tax payers already pay way too much tax, 40 and 45% , what do people in favour propose we raise taxes? Even if we did you would still increase the deficit. UKIP is socially right but economically left( they are clever in disguising). So I don't personally agree with UKIP on that one.( Im a tory)
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