Should Britain now join a "North Sea Union"?

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Fullofsurprises
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The Prime Minister of Flanders (part of Belgium) has called for a new "North Sea Union" to include Britain.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...rth-sea-union/

The suggested members would be Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Sweden, and Norway. It would work in parallel to the EU as a separate institution.

Is this a good idea? It sounds a bit like the proposal for a 'Euro North' and a 'Euro South' often touted as a solution to the deadening effect of the Euro on the Mediterranean economies.

With France heading deeper and deeper into both economic stagnation and surging unemployment, the Euro's survival is looking increasingly uncertain anyway, so perhaps this would be a replacement?
Discuss. :yep:
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inhuman
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As a German, I have no interest in such a union to include Britain.

I however have entertained the idea before of northern European countries to split from the EU and become more integrated. These would include the Benelux, the Germanic and the Nordics and possibly France.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by inhuman)
As a German, I have no interest in such a union to include Britain.

I however have entertained the idea before of northern European countries to split from the EU and become more integrated. These would include the Benelux, the Germanic and the Nordics and possibly France.
I think you're thinking of a split in the Euro, eg, a 'Euro North' encompassing Germany, the Benelux and Scandinavia and a 'Rump Euro' covering the rest. France couldn't continue to be part of the Euro North without facing the same difficulties it currently does as it is heavily outgunned in competition with Germany. It's clear that France should either return to the Franc or else go in with Southern Europe.

This seems to be wishful thinking on the part of the PM of Flanders, I suspect there's a desire there to avoid having to be in a Europe completely dominated by Germany.
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inhuman
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I think you're thinking of a split in the Euro, eg, a 'Euro North' encompassing Germany, the Benelux and Scandinavia and a 'Rump Euro' covering the rest. France couldn't continue to be part of the Euro North without facing the same difficulties it currently does as it is heavily outgunned in competition with Germany. It's clear that France should either return to the Franc or else go in with Southern Europe.

This seems to be wishful thinking on the part of the PM of Flanders, I suspect there's a desire there to avoid having to be in a Europe completely dominated by Germany.
Hence why I said possibly France. Culturally I feel we ought to integrate more closely, but as you say economically there may be reasons against this.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by inhuman)
Hence why I said possibly France. Culturally I feel we ought to integrate more closely, but as you say economically there may be reasons against this.
The strongest reason is the extremely deflationary and austere fiscal policy that Germany has and that it tries incorrectly to constantly impose on the rest of the Eurozone.
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user 42005
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I would strongly support such an idea if we are on a trajectory to leave the EU, but a North Sea Union is unlikely to happen.

inhuman Why wouldn't you want it to include Britain? The idea being proposed is largely based on economics (and I think he also mentioned defence). He isn't proposing deep political union, which in that case I could understand why you would want to omit Britain, at least to some extent.
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The Awakener
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(Original post by JRKinder)
I would strongly support such an idea if we are on a trajectory to leave the EU, but a North Sea Union is unlikely to happen.

inhuman Why wouldn't you want it to include Britain? The idea being proposed is largely based on economics (and I think he also mentioned defence). He isn't proposing deep political union, which in that case I could understand why you would want to omit Britain, at least to some extent.
We should join the Scandinavian trading alliance of Norway and Iceland.
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inhuman
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(Original post by JRKinder)
I would strongly support such an idea if we are on a trajectory to leave the EU, but a North Sea Union is unlikely to happen.

inhuman Why wouldn't you want it to include Britain? The idea being proposed is largely based on economics (and I think he also mentioned defence). He isn't proposing deep political union, which in that case I could understand why you would want to omit Britain, at least to some extent.
The majority of your country has shown clear nationalistic and overtly patriotic tendencies. No thanks. Edit: oh an read the reply below mine, I think I can rest my case

And well economic union without political union is difficult to say the least.
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richpanda
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Not getting in any sort of union with the nation of cuckoldry, Sweden. Unless this union would be purely economical and have no political/social influence like the EU.

Otherwise Sweden would try and impose its stupid feminazi policies on the other countries, like all companies must have the same number of males and females on the board.
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richpanda
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Also, France can f off. They're not Northern Europeans, they speak a romance language and they have the southern European lifestyle.
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Pinkberry_y
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Can we please not join any more unions, we're just starting to escape from the mess that is the EU, we don't need another travesty
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Drewski
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Why?
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user 42005
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(Original post by inhuman)
The majority of your country has shown clear nationalistic and overtly patriotic tendencies. No thanks.

And well economic union without political union is difficult to say the least.
Well I don't know how much you've been watching the whole referendum debate but pretty much half the country don't want to leave at all. A majority did vote to leave, but it was only small, so please don't think everyone fits into that category (also a lot of those voting to leave just wanted the EU to be an economic rather than political entity, not necessarily nationalism). It makes sense for you to keep as close economic ties as possible, particularly for your automotive industry.

And not necessarily, you only really need a model based on the EU single market but without the centralised policy making beyond what is needed to maintain trade. Having free movement and no tariffs is a good way to start this, and since all of these countries are relatively on-par in terms of development and wages there won't be any mass immigration from one country to another (like from Eastern to Western Europe), so immigration concerns will be at a minimum.
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inhuman
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(Original post by JRKinder)
Well I don't know how much you've been watching the whole referendum debate but pretty much half the country don't want to leave at all. A majority did vote to leave, but it was only small, so please don't think everyone fits into that category (also a lot of those voting to leave just wanted the EU to be an economic rather than political entity, not necessarily nationalism). It makes sense for you to keep as close economic ties as possible, particularly for your automotive industry.

And not necessarily, you only really need a model based on the EU single market but without the centralised policy making beyond what is needed to maintain trade. Having free movement and no tariffs is a good way to start this, and since all of these countries are relatively on-par in terms of development and wages there won't be any mass immigration from one country to another (like from Eastern to Western Europe), so immigration concerns will be at a minimum.
I beg to differ.

It was a small majority yes, but majority nonetheless. 52% of those that bothered to vote. And as I said above that is irrelevant. This economic union would never happen without political union so those Brits would again rebel.
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user 42005
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(Original post by inhuman)
I beg to differ.

It was a small majority yes, but majority nonetheless. 52% of those that bothered to vote. And as I said above that is irrelevant. This economic union would never happen without political union so those Brits would again rebel.
But what I'm saying is that any political ties can be kept to a minimum, there only needs to be political union so far as to maintain economic ties. It is very possible to do as free trade agreements exist around the world and are successful. There is no need for political union over trivial matters under such an arrangement, only those that uphold the single market.

If the alternative was trading tariffs then, taking emotional bitterness aside, it would make sense to do this. Just for the record, I'd completely understand other EU countries not wanting to cooperate with Britain following the referendum, but all I'm saying is that this proposal could work well if there was the political will for it to happen. And I do think it's immensely important that 48 out of every 100 people you meet on the street voted to remain, because that shows that there is still a strong will in Britain to remain 'European', which you seem to be implying most people don't (and I mean most as in a large amount of people).
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inhuman
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(Original post by JRKinder)
But what I'm saying is that any political ties can be kept to a minimum, there only needs to be political union so far as to maintain economic ties. It is very possible to do as free trade agreements exist around the world and are successful. There is no need for political union over trivial matters under such an arrangement, only those that uphold the single market.

If the alternative was trading tariffs then, taking emotional bitterness aside, it would make sense to do this. Just for the record, I'd completely understand other EU countries not wanting to cooperate with Britain following the referendum, but all I'm saying is that this proposal could work well if there was the political will for it to happen. And I do think it's immensely important that 48 out of every 100 people you meet on the street voted to remain, because that shows that there is still a strong will in Britain to remain 'European', which you seem to be implying most people don't (and I mean most as in a large amount of people).
But all those countries that you mention in this possible union, they have a population that wants more integration with neighboring countries...

And I see what you mean, but it's still enough people to make a fuss and constantly whine. And sorry it's not our job to cater to the minority of your country.
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inhuman
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Yes; like the Hanseatic League of old
German Hansestsädte still maintain that title
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SaucissonSecCy
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Bad idea, especially alongside the EU. Do you think the Dutch want three layers of stupid bureaucrats and politicians?
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user 42005
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(Original post by inhuman)
But all those countries that you mention in this possible union, they have a population that wants more integration with neighboring countries...

And I see what you mean, but it's still enough people to make a fuss and constantly whine. And sorry it's not our job to cater to the minority of your country.
Which is why this proposal is unlikely to happen, of course. I also want more integration, btw, but I can't deny that this proposal isn't a bad alternative to the EU, and at least for me (and others, I imagine) is certainly preferable to Brexit.

Just out of interest though, let's say hypothetically this union was to go ahead, do you think it would be a success? Economically I'd say yes.

And no, you're right, it isn't the responsibility of Germany, or others, to cater for the (albeit small) Briish minority. I just find the whole situation quite sad because many of that British minority want to be a part of the European community.
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ckfeister
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(Original post by inhuman)
As a German, I have no interest in such a union to include Britain.

I however have entertained the idea before of northern European countries to split from the EU and become more integrated. These would include the Benelux, the Germanic and the Nordics and possibly France.
What if it was 2 EU's again? Would you want that? Don't forget what EU was like before we all joined one. You had..

Britain as the central power with north countries.
EU with Germany and France as the central powers.
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