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Doing history at Oxford or Cambridge
Are these universities evenly matched when it comes to the history department at Oxbridge?
Reply 1
No, Cambridge's is generally top of the league tables, with Oxford third or fourth. Of course, league tables are a load of rubbish, but Cambridge was also recently ranked second in the world for History (behind Harvard) with Oxford fourth, after Princeton if I remember. OK the Cambridge faculty is housed in a leaky falling apart love-it-or-hate-it building by James Stirling, but it's still generally better.
Reply 2
TBH I don't think there will be much difference between the courses.The only thing that is up to you is to work your hardest while on the courses. Both have equivalent reputation and I wouldn't trust most league tables.
Reply 3
Ah, thanks for your reply.
Do slightly fewer people apply at Oxford to do history than at Cambridge? And therefore, would I have more chance to get into Oxford to do history as there may be less competition?
Do slightly fewer people apply at Oxford to do history than at Cambridge? And therefore, would I have more chance to get into Oxford to do history as there may be less competition?
Reply 4
nickobicko
Ah, thanks for your reply.
Do slightly fewer people apply at Oxford to do history than at Cambridge? And therefore, would I have more chance to get into Oxford to do history as there may be less competition?
Do slightly fewer people apply at Oxford to do history than at Cambridge? And therefore, would I have more chance to get into Oxford to do history as there may be less competition?
I wouldn't apply based on that. I don't think anybody would recommend choosing between the two that way. I think you should look at the course content of both courses and seeing what you would enjoy more. Usually the best people get in and looking at how much competition there is won't increase your chances. The people that go are usually people who have a passion for their subject who can think in a different way to everyone else who can apply their knowledge onto something they have never done in their lives.
Reply 5
Yeah Cambridge is above Oxford for history in league tables, but at the end of the day they're both good unis and both near the top so there can't be much between them. And don't even try to apply tactically because they both have lots of applicants and it really won't make much difference...just accept that there's going to be lots of competition at both of them. If you look at the various threads about why oxford/cambridge on here then all sorts of reasons help people make up their minds, not just the league table position. Just apply to whichever place and course is most appealing to you.
If you're trying to distinguish the standard of the courses offered by the universities, it's like splitting hairs! Firstly, look at the courses. Then look at the place (quite often people just like one university more than the other). You can look at the application process for both (e.g. whether your UMS marks are likely to be good, or whether you'd like to do the HAT), NOT the statistics/league tables, which are variable/unreliable. Try and weigh up which is the best for you!
Reply 8
I'm trying to make the same choice between to two, i'm veering towards Cambridge though, and thats because oxford rejected me for history and politics.
Oxford
1st year
Four papers are taken:
* History of the British Isles
* General history (primarily European)
* Historical methods (choice of
o Approaches to history;
o Historiography;
o Tacitus to Weber;
o Quantification;
o one of seven foreign texts)
* Optional subject (choices include
o Theories of the state;
o Conquest and colonisation: Spain and America in the sixteenth century;
o Culture, society and politics in England, 1700-1795;
o Working-class life and industrial work in Britain 1870-1914)
2nd and 3rd years
Six subjects are taken:
* History of the British Isles
* General history
* Further subject (choice of about 30, including:
o Anglo-Saxon archaeology of the early Christian period;
o China in war and revolution, 1890-1949;
o The Near East in the age of Justinian and Muhammad, c.527-c.700;
o Society and government in France, 1600-1715;
o The first industrial revolution;
o Imperialism and nationalism, 1830-1980;
o Modern Japan, 1868-1972;
o The Soviet Union, 1924-41)
* Special subject: a paper and an extended essay (choices include:
o The Norman conquest of England;
o Politics, art and culture in the Italian Renaissance, Venice and Florence c.1475-1525;
o The Scientific movement in the 17th century;
o English architecture, 1660-1720;
o Political pressures and social policy 1899-1914;
o The Russian Revolution of 1917;
o India, 1919-39: Contesting the nation;
o Nazi Germany, a racial order, 1933-45;
o The Great Society era, 1960-70;
o The Northern Ireland troubles, 1965-85)
* Disciplines of history
* Thesis
*
Cambridge
Years 1 and 2
Part I lasts two years (six terms). You choose five from 22 periods of history and study one each term for the first five terms.
* You take at least one period of British political history and one of British economic and social history.
* For the other three papers it is possible to study any period of European history from the Greeks to the present, periods of extra- European history, the history of the USA, and/or the history of political thought. If you wish, you may specialise, for example in ancient and medieval papers, or almost entirely in the twentieth century.
* For the sixth component, Themes and Sources, you will complete a 5,000 word essay. There is a very wide choice of topics, typically investigating a major theme in comparative history (such as gender, democracy, revolutions or music). The essay is written over a period of some months, and involves individual research.
Year 3
Students who have taken Part I then take a one-year Part II. (The two-year Part II is for those who have taken a one-year Part I in another subject.). This consists of five units:
* a general paper, Historical Argument and Practice
* four other papers chosen from nearly 40 options in all, ranging across the centuries and continents.
You can substitute a dissertation on a topic of your choice for one paper.
- - - -
See which course interests you the most, which city you prefer, which university you most like the feel of, etc.
1st year
Four papers are taken:
* History of the British Isles
* General history (primarily European)
* Historical methods (choice of
o Approaches to history;
o Historiography;
o Tacitus to Weber;
o Quantification;
o one of seven foreign texts)
* Optional subject (choices include
o Theories of the state;
o Conquest and colonisation: Spain and America in the sixteenth century;
o Culture, society and politics in England, 1700-1795;
o Working-class life and industrial work in Britain 1870-1914)
2nd and 3rd years
Six subjects are taken:
* History of the British Isles
* General history
* Further subject (choice of about 30, including:
o Anglo-Saxon archaeology of the early Christian period;
o China in war and revolution, 1890-1949;
o The Near East in the age of Justinian and Muhammad, c.527-c.700;
o Society and government in France, 1600-1715;
o The first industrial revolution;
o Imperialism and nationalism, 1830-1980;
o Modern Japan, 1868-1972;
o The Soviet Union, 1924-41)
* Special subject: a paper and an extended essay (choices include:
o The Norman conquest of England;
o Politics, art and culture in the Italian Renaissance, Venice and Florence c.1475-1525;
o The Scientific movement in the 17th century;
o English architecture, 1660-1720;
o Political pressures and social policy 1899-1914;
o The Russian Revolution of 1917;
o India, 1919-39: Contesting the nation;
o Nazi Germany, a racial order, 1933-45;
o The Great Society era, 1960-70;
o The Northern Ireland troubles, 1965-85)
* Disciplines of history
* Thesis
*
Cambridge
Years 1 and 2
Part I lasts two years (six terms). You choose five from 22 periods of history and study one each term for the first five terms.
* You take at least one period of British political history and one of British economic and social history.
* For the other three papers it is possible to study any period of European history from the Greeks to the present, periods of extra- European history, the history of the USA, and/or the history of political thought. If you wish, you may specialise, for example in ancient and medieval papers, or almost entirely in the twentieth century.
* For the sixth component, Themes and Sources, you will complete a 5,000 word essay. There is a very wide choice of topics, typically investigating a major theme in comparative history (such as gender, democracy, revolutions or music). The essay is written over a period of some months, and involves individual research.
Year 3
Students who have taken Part I then take a one-year Part II. (The two-year Part II is for those who have taken a one-year Part I in another subject.). This consists of five units:
* a general paper, Historical Argument and Practice
* four other papers chosen from nearly 40 options in all, ranging across the centuries and continents.
You can substitute a dissertation on a topic of your choice for one paper.
- - - -
See which course interests you the most, which city you prefer, which university you most like the feel of, etc.
Reply 10
Oxford is better.
Have you ever heard of The History Boys being set at Cambridge? No.
Cambridge isn't bad though.
Have you ever heard of The History Boys being set at Cambridge? No.
Cambridge isn't bad though.
nickobicko
Are these universities evenly matched when it comes to the history department at Oxbridge?
I think Cambridge's faculty is a bit stronger and always has been, but in terms of undergrad prestige there shouldn't be any difference. I wouldn't mind betting that most lay people will assume Oxford is better, in any case.
Reply 12
AlexCash
Oxford is better.
Have you ever heard of The History Boys being set at Cambridge? No.
Cambridge isn't bad though.
Have you ever heard of The History Boys being set at Cambridge? No.
Cambridge isn't bad though.
The film of The History Boys was about applicants to Oxford and Cambridge. If the play ever concentrated purely on Oxford that might be because Alan Bennett studied there.
The Times puts Cambridge as best, Durham second and Oxford third.
The Guardian puts Courtald Institute as first, Cambridge second and Oxford third.
Regarding James Stirling's Department of History building at Cambridge, I haven't visited Cambridge but it looks a great design, remininscent of some Victorian architecture. I attended Leicester University which has his other famous Engineering building.
Reply 13
Cards on the table now. Deciding between Oxford and Cambridge...
I think I will go with Cambridge: the course looks more interesting and more varied to your own preference. (by the way thanks very much Lottie for the info). Now I just have to get 3 As, impress the interviewers and get some good stuff on the CV (probably more to do...)
I live in Oxford, so it would be the easiest thing to do if I applied at Oxford, but then again, my parents have history (no pun intended) with Cambridge university and I prefer the town a lot more. Looks like it will be Cambridge!
I think I will go with Cambridge: the course looks more interesting and more varied to your own preference. (by the way thanks very much Lottie for the info). Now I just have to get 3 As, impress the interviewers and get some good stuff on the CV (probably more to do...)
I live in Oxford, so it would be the easiest thing to do if I applied at Oxford, but then again, my parents have history (no pun intended) with Cambridge university and I prefer the town a lot more. Looks like it will be Cambridge!
Reply 14
Courtald Institute
That will be for history of art only wont it?
Reply 15
Picnico
Regarding James Stirling's Department of History building at Cambridge, I haven't visited Cambridge but it looks a great design, remininscent of some Victorian architecture. I attended Leicester University which has his other famous Engineering building.
Regarding James Stirling's Department of History building at Cambridge, I haven't visited Cambridge but it looks a great design, remininscent of some Victorian architecture. I attended Leicester University which has his other famous Engineering building.
It's very much a Marmite building- you either love it or hate it. The stairs are FAR to narrow and small for people to use at 9am for lectures, it's either too hot or too cold, the ventilation fans havn't been used since the 1960s (Stirling switched them off as they caused the whole building to vibrate), it leaks, it reminds one of a prison...
Yet I love it. It's just got this 60s feel about it, added to the fact that there's so much glass and some great views from the 6th floor. One of my favourite places in Cambridge is (and this is really sad) sitting on a ledge on the 5th floor at the corner where the library roof comes in at an angle, and looking into the library roof and down into the library.
Evenly matched, i personally like the course layout of Oxford better but its not as it thats a biggy either. Main decision maker was more the difference of the universities in general, and how much the Cam history building sucked, rather than specific considerations regarding History. I dont think you can go wrong with either. So long as on the league tables one isnt 10 places above the other, it doesnt matter, league tables arent place accurate. If you genuinely think a Durham history grad is a step ahead of an Oxford one in a job market judging from a league table, you'd have to think again.
Consie's right. I mean, can you (honestly, realistically) envisage yourself at a point whereby the minuscule disparity in terms of prestige between Oxford and Cambridge (for History) should prove pivotal?
Can anyone?
By all means, choose Cambridge over Oxford: assuming that the course-content, location, accommodation, architecture, teaching-staff, facilities, community, bursary, social-scene, extra-curricular opportunities, lawn-height and garden-gnome provision are all of identical bearing or otherwise inconsequential (and that your every competitor in the subsequent rat-race towards that much-coveted faculty position is otherwise equivalent in every material aspect), your discernment could be well-remunerated. Although the prevailing likelihood already seems to be that you'll lose-out at the interview-stage to a charismatic and quick-witted Birmingham graduate, on account of your misplaced faith in meaningless abstracts and (by extension) demonstrated total lack of common-sense.
Can anyone?
By all means, choose Cambridge over Oxford: assuming that the course-content, location, accommodation, architecture, teaching-staff, facilities, community, bursary, social-scene, extra-curricular opportunities, lawn-height and garden-gnome provision are all of identical bearing or otherwise inconsequential (and that your every competitor in the subsequent rat-race towards that much-coveted faculty position is otherwise equivalent in every material aspect), your discernment could be well-remunerated. Although the prevailing likelihood already seems to be that you'll lose-out at the interview-stage to a charismatic and quick-witted Birmingham graduate, on account of your misplaced faith in meaningless abstracts and (by extension) demonstrated total lack of common-sense.
i'd like to register my active dislike for the faculty building, but for some reason i just can't bring myself to do so.
the glass indulgence ensure the upper levels are stiflingly hot in summer, i'm never entirely sure that the building is actually 100% stable, and the ventilation is... unique.
but it does have something of an ugly, idiotic charm about it. a history faculty built to resemble an open book - heady stuff
the glass indulgence ensure the upper levels are stiflingly hot in summer, i'm never entirely sure that the building is actually 100% stable, and the ventilation is... unique.
but it does have something of an ugly, idiotic charm about it. a history faculty built to resemble an open book - heady stuff
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