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Going out with a jewish girll.... advice please! watch

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    Hello everyone, first thread i've actually start but heres my little problem,

    I'm an English/Armenian orthodox christian, and i've being going out with my jewish girlfriend for the past 16 months and we're completely head over heals for eachother...

    The problem is, her parents won't let us go on holiday together... Why? it's hardly age because im 19 and she's 18 now... its because it would supposedly "ruin her reputation", ie... it would make her look like a slut or something completely and utterly stupid like that.

    Here's my view, and i don't know if i wanna be told im crazy or not.

    She's always told me, that i'm not really invited to family functions (like big friday night dinners) because if i came, it would look like the relationship was "serious" ie. getting married, i can sort of deal with that. Secondly she's also said, that if she were to marry a non-jewish person, her family would be PISSED.

    So my little theory is, by going on holiday with her, to the rest of the family (not neccesarily her parents, they kinda love me as far as i know...) the relationship looks "serious" and because im not jewish, thats a big no no.

    ive had this in my head for a few days now, and just wanted some honest and somewhat anonymous opinions, and maybe someone who is jewish themselves to give me a little insight into whether or not this may actually be the case.

    If it is, i dont really know how to feel, a part of me feels like "**** em i love her, she loves me i don't care" and another feels really insulted that just because i don't share the same beliefs im somehow not good enough (an age old story i know)

    so any ideas? what should i do?
    thanks in advance...
    Alex
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    Nothing you can do about bigotry I'm afraid...it's a great shame
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    Yea, I feel for you. You're going to have great difficulties here unfortunately. It's either going to cause major heartache for you guys, or for her family.
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    well she's already said that she personally would always prefer to marry a jewish person over someone of another religion...

    and she's not someone to make sacrifices, im not really thinking about marriage no worries, but it gives me a bit of insight...

    im thinking me ( or both of us) are the ones to suffer...
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    Well, if you going on hol with her means she would be viewed as a slut by her jweish community, stupid though you may think it is, it is still fact that it would happen. Do you really want her to be humiliated and embarrassed in her own synagoue (can't spell) and her own community and her friends and her family's friends, and etc? Respect her beliefs - she's Jewish, and if this IS how a jewish community will feel, then just let it go and respect that.

    I mean, I don't think my two friends are allowed on holiday together even though they're engaged simply because it really would ruin the girl's reputation by her culture. I'm unsure as to whether this has changed due to the engagement, but that was certainly the case when they were dating, and it probably still is.

    And as with the whole "this relationship is serious" - that has nothing to do with the holiday. You feel that your gf does not want her family to think this relationship to be serious and you find that insulting and hurtful - and rightfully so too. But are you two serious then? I gather you are. If so, her family needs to accept that, or your gf needs to stop caring about what her family thought, or you two must break up cus in the end she wouldn't marry you anyway so you're just getting yourself more attached and therefore waiting for a greater heartbreak. You want this relationship to be acknowledged to be serious and to be what it actually is - then talk to her and if she's unwilling and you can't cope with that - break up, cus there's no way out. Sooner or later if you two carry on her family will HAVE to acknowledge that it's serious and if the gf is unwilling to risk that, then it's never going to be acknowledge therefore you two have no future together.

    In the end, tell her what you're thinking. I hope it works out x
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    (Original post by elfthorn)
    well she's already said that she personally would always prefer to marry a jewish person over someone of another religion...

    and she's not someone to make sacrifices, im not really thinking about marriage no worries, but it gives me a bit of insight...

    im thinking me ( or both of us) are the ones to suffer...
    Yea, take it as it comes. Have fun and good times together. But don't expect too much or you'll end up really bit and angry, and perhaps quite prejudice! (fairly justifiably really)

    They say love conquers all, but religion owns it almost every time!
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    im a very liberal person, especially when it comes to religion - eg i dont go synagogue or partake in any of the festivals. BUT however hypocritical it may sound i would never even date a non jewish girl. its basically a line which cant be crossed (i cant justify it its just the way it is!). not a bigot at all, i get with non jewish girls all the time thats no problem but cant let things become serious. its really hard for anyone else to understand because its a mindset more than anything else.
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    If her family is religious, I'm afraid you'll either have to convert, leave the girl, or cause massive problems between the girl and her family. None of the options are very good, but there's not much you can do about that.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    If her family is religious, I'm afraid you'll either have to convert, leave the girl, or cause massive problems between the girl and her family. None of the options are very good, but there's not much you can do about that.
    Convert AND be religious
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    (Original post by Metropolitan)
    It's illogical nonsense that's why nobody else can understand it. You're a bigot.
    Most people respect it though. Ultimately its a personal choice.
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    It's not bigotry, it's one of the mitzvot!
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    (Original post by Jonesy_LJ)
    That assumes that the problem is solely with a difference of religion, let's not forget that the Jews are not solely a religious group, they're also a race.

    And as I recall it's notoriously difficult to join the Jewish faith.
    Not necessarily. Some Rabbis will turn a prospective convert away three times, but that's more symbolic than anything. It's also harder to convert to Orthodox Judaism, but for a Reform or Conservative conversion, it's pretty simple (though lengthy); study, study, study, study, study, study, study, Bet Din, Mikveh, circumcision (if you're a guy).
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    (Original post by harpy)
    Not necessarily. Some Rabbis will turn a prospective convert away three times, but that's more symbolic than anything. It's also harder to convert to Orthodox Judaism, but for a Reform or Conservative conversion, it's pretty simple (though lengthy); study, study, study, study, study, study, study, Bet Din, Mikveh, circumcision (if you're a guy).
    Relatively, thats still a lot harder than to convert to any other religion.
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    (Original post by samba)
    Relatively, thats still a lot harder than to convert to any other religion.
    True. But i suppose that stems from the Jewish belief that anyone who is religious believes in God. Believing in any God is believing in our God, and conversion doesn't 'strengthen' one's regard in God's eyes. Conversion isn't necessary to be seen as a believer.
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    haha, its like Montajews & Capulets
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    (Original post by harpy)
    True. But i suppose that stems from the Jewish belief that anyone who is religious believes in God. Believing in any God is believing in our God, and conversion doesn't 'strengthen' one's regard in God's eyes. Conversion isn't necessary to be seen as a believer.
    Hmm, thats certainly not an orthodox belief :p:
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    (Original post by Metropolitan)
    OP If she likes you enough, she will recognise that her family are being unreasonable, and will disregard their ridiculous demands.

    Allternatively, leave her and respect her families wishes for her daughter to marry one of God's chosen people.
    They're not being ridiculous or unreasonable! Her family are being religious. It's in the Torah, it's one of the 613 mitzvot Jews are supposed to adhere to. Granted, some of them can't be done if you're male or if you're female, or without the Holy Temple, or not in Israel... but we're still meant to obey them all.
    It's like "thou shalt not kill".
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    (Original post by samba)
    Hmm, thats certainly not an orthodox belief :p:
    Belief in G-d, while a Jewish contribution, is by no means a Jewish monopoly. All of mankind ought to believe in G-d, and, as a matter of fact, Judaism encourages it. There is no exclusive "Jewish belief" in G-d--there is the One G-d in whom Jews believe and teach all others to believe.

    In addition, G-d gave the Torah, with its 613 Mitzvot, to the Jewish People. However, He also gave the non-Jewish peoples a parallel moral code: the Seven Noahide Laws. He expects every (non-Jewish) human being and society to live by these.

    The seven general categories of the Code are: 1) Not to murder; 2) Not to steal; 3) Not to commit adultery or incest; 4) Not to blaspheme; 5) Not to eat the limb of a live animal; 6) Not to worship idols; and 7) To establish a system of justice.
    The Sages tell us that a non-Jew who fulfills these laws can anticipate much reward in the World-to-Come1. Therefore, there is no need for a non-Jew to convert to Judaism in order for him or her to enjoy a personal relationship with G-d.

    If, however, a non-Jew wishes to convert to Judaism, he or she can do so by going through the same process that the Jewish People went through when they became Jews2 , namely: 1) Circumcision (in the case of males); 2) Immersion in the Mikvah for the sake of conversion; and 3) Accepting to fulfill all 613 Mitzvot in their entirety.3 All of this must be done in the presence of an authentic Rabbinical Court.

    But regardless of religion, we are all on "Team G-d," and the "sport" we are "playing" is making this world a better place. In Judaism, there's no human being who has no place, purpose or importance.

    ---taken from askmoses.com

    Go team!
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    (Original post by Metropolitan)
    The religion card doesn't work with me I'm afraid. Try looking at this logically, eh?
    I couldn't give a rat's ass what the Torah says and more importantly neither does the OP, who has to make this decision. If you're going to quote scripture it's not helping the point of the thread, try giving some constructive advice.
    If the OP's dating a Jewish girl, maybe he should take an interest in her faith. Furthermore, i'm a Jewish girl and i'm giving my perspective.
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    Back to the problem at hand- OP, i think you should perhaps consider where this relationship is going. Discuss it with your girlfriend, too. You may decide it's best to cut your losses and (if you are in love with each other, as you say) get over each other before it gets even harder.
 
 
 
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