Labour Leadership Contest 2016 Watch

Poll: Who would you vote for - Jeremy Corbyn or Owen Smith?
The results of this poll are hidden until the poll closes.
ali20javadi
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#1
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I would like to know who would you vote for, if you were/are eligible to vote, in the current Labour Leadership Contest - Jeremy Corbyn or Owen Smith.
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Pinkberry_y
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Jezza, it's go to be Jezza
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CoffeeAndPolitics
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Here's my personal stance on Labour ... First of all, I feel that Jeremy's leadership of the party has been poor since he won the landslide leadership election back last year and that he hasn't really offered much; he's been weak on the opposition front benches and can offer little. This follows with roughly 2/3 of his Shadow Cabinet resigning and a motion of no confidence being past and to summarise my view of his leadership, Labour is going backwards to the 60s era and is subsequently "out of touch" with the modern era. Owen Smith on the other hand is a decent guy who has decent polices but they're very ambiguous especially the Housing Plan and the pledge to tackle homelessness. I'm worried about his stance on the economy and I really don't want to see another big mistake happen - more borrowing and higher taxes. Some of Owen's ideas are good but I can't support him. Therefore, I support neither of them.
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ali20javadi
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(Original post by JTran38)
Here's my personal stance on Labour ... First of all, I feel that Jeremy's leadership of the party has been poor since he won the landslide leadership election back last year and that he hasn't really offered much; he's been weak on the opposition front benches and can offer little. This follows with roughly 2/3 of his Shadow Cabinet resigning and a motion of no confidence being past and to summarise my view of his leadership, Labour is going backwards to the 60s era and is subsequently "out of touch" with the modern era. Owen Smith on the other hand is a decent guy who has decent polices but they're very ambiguous especially the Housing Plan and the pledge to tackle homelessness. I'm worried about his stance on the economy and I really don't want to see another big mistake happen - more borrowing and higher taxes. Some of Owen's ideas are good but I can't support him. Therefore, I support neither of them.
I disagree with your point about Jeremy Corbyn not offering much, as he has increased the Labour membership by 100,000 members. Although Jeremy Corbyn isn't a Blairite, which means that he is likely to be unelectable, he is a genuine socialist which means his policies favour the wider public rather than rich corporations.
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kimkarsd
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I don't care really, Labour is spent, it would mean more Tories in office.And a 2nd female PM, when they've never even had a female leader yet.lol.
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Trinculo
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It's lose/lose now. No matter who wins, the party is almost certain to split in two.

All the new members aren't Labour supporters - they're Corbyn supporters. Corbyn doesn't even support the Labour party. They won't stick around for an Owen led party. They're too invested and convinced of their own righteousness. Similarly, the actual Labour people - the people with half a brain or more, will be basically chucked out of the Corbyn Brave New World.
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RuWill2001
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At the minute the party is unelectable, that is not because of Jeremy; It is because of the MP's who have made an absolute joke of the party and themselves. Jeremy has support of the members, surely the MP's know that and should respect that.

The the next general election isn't until 2020, the Tory's will make a bucket-load of mistakes by then. When Jeremy wins he will have a load of time to rebuild Labour's reputation and he can make Labour electable- I do not think Smith can.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by RuWill2001)
At the minute the party is unelectable, that is not because of Jeremy; It is because of the MP's who have made an absolute joke of the party and themselves. Jeremy has support of the members, surely the MP's know that and should respect that.

The the next general election isn't until 2020, the Tory's will make a bucket-load of mistakes by then. When Jeremy wins he will have a load of time to rebuild Labour's reputation and he can make Labour electable- I do not think Smith can.
This is not a reality, and is just a fiction made up of near-religious wishful thinking peddled by Corbyn supporters.

The electorate unequivocally do not want a left-wing government. They definitely do not want a hard-left neo-Marxist government led by Jeremy Corbyn. Absolutely everything indicates electoral oblivion for Labour regardless of what happens now - and that is because they have been effectively taken over by the hard-left. If a moderate or Blairite had taken over after Miliband, Labour would probably be on course to win. You might not like that - but it's the way it is.

Look at the demographics of England, and especially the voting patterns from the last General Election and EU referendum. Most voters are not like you and do not think like you. Most voters want lower taxes and immigration controls. Most voters do not want unilateral nuclear disarmament, faux-feminism and blaming everything on Israel. Theresa May offers the former, Corbyn offers the latter.
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Francis Urquhart
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Corbyn has become infallible in the eyes of many, and anybody who will abandon the labour party after Corbyn's time aren't true labour supporters.

It is incredibly frustrating watch innocent news articles get labelled 'Propaganda' and cynical MP's being labelled 'Plotters' as part of a 'coup.' All of this hot-air being unleashed by those who follow their beloved leader all the way into the depths of hell. Their definition of 'hell' being electoral annhialation.

Once we're out of the EU (much to my dismay) we will have to see what happens to the UKIP voters and which party they gravitate towards, but i doubt it will be towards Corbyn.

It doesn't help that Smith is so uncharismatic and that thanks to popular hive-mind thinking so many people think that New labour is toxic. Their silly to think that the Iraq war can toxify an entire new breed of thinking.
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username878267
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(Original post by Pinkberry_y)
Jezza, it's go to be Jezza
I know you're a tory voter but I'm not sure why people want a one party state. A competent opposition is a pre requisite to a good democracy. Having the official opposition being so hopelessly incompetent effectively allows the government to become complacent and get away with whatever they want.



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Pinkberry_y
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(Original post by Bornblue)
I know you're a tory voter but I'm not sure why people want a one party state. A competent opposition is a pre requisite to a good democracy. Having the official opposition being so hopelessly incompetent effectively allows the government to become complacent and get away with whatever they want.



Posted from TSR Mobile
Ultimately it would be better for our country to have solid opposition, but right now we need some laughter after all the doom and gloom of EU
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KimKallstrom
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(Original post by Francis Urquhart)
Corbyn has become infallible in the eyes of many, and anybody who will abandon the labour party after Corbyn's time aren't true labour supporters.

It is incredibly frustrating watch innocent news articles get labelled 'Propaganda' and cynical MP's being labelled 'Plotters' as part of a 'coup.' All of this hot-air being unleashed by those who follow their beloved leader all the way into the depths of hell. Their definition of 'hell' being electoral annhialation.

Once we're out of the EU (much to my dismay) we will have to see what happens to the UKIP voters and which party they gravitate towards, but i doubt it will be towards Corbyn.

It doesn't help that Smith is so uncharismatic and that thanks to popular hive-mind thinking so many people think that New labour is toxic. Their silly to think that the Iraq war can toxify an entire new breed of thinking.
My thoughts exactly.
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JamesN88
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Labelling Tom Watson a Blairite is one of the most pathetic bits of it all IMO.

He was anti-Blair way before it became fashionable.
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Aliccam
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(Original post by Francis Urquhart)
Corbyn has become infallible in the eyes of many, and anybody who will abandon the labour party after Corbyn's time aren't true labour supporters.
Corbyn supporters don't see him as infallible, quite the opposite. They actually like that he himself admits his fallibility. What they like is that he is real rather than phoney like most of the rest of our elected representatives. They would rather have someone who represents them and makes the occasional mistake, than some who doesn't represent them who gives the appearance of doing so and deliberately deceives them.

It is incredibly frustrating watch innocent news articles get labelled 'Propaganda' and cynical MP's being labelled 'Plotters' as part of a 'coup.' All of this hot-air being unleashed by those who follow their beloved leader all the way into the depths of hell. Their definition of 'hell' being electoral annhialation.
There was a coup, and electoral annihilation may be a self fulfilling prophecy instigated by the very people who are claiming it. Corbyn and his supporters want to be in government It is those that are opposing and disrupting him that are ruining the party's chances for election. How can a party hope to be elected with a mob of its own MPs and former MPs running to the press with negative and often unsubstantiated stories about its own leader.
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meenu89
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I look forward to next years 'Labour Leadership Contest 2017' thread....
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vanderwoodsen
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I've voted for Owen Smith however I doubt Labour could have come up with any opposition more limp. He doesn't instil much faith in me. However I'm certainly not a Corbynista meaning I voted for Smith by default.
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KimKallstrom
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(Original post by JamesN88)
Labelling Tom Watson a Blairite is one of the most pathetic bits of it all IMO.

He was anti-Blair way before it became fashionable.
Has anybody actually done this?
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JamesN88
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(Original post by KimKallstrom)
Has anybody actually done this?
I'm sure I can remember some idiots shouting it.

Along with the usual "red Tory" crap.
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Francis Urquhart
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(Original post by Aliccam)
Corbyn supporters don't see him as infallible, quite the opposite. They actually like that he himself admits his fallibility. What they like is that he is real rather than phoney like most of the rest of our elected representatives. They would rather have someone who represents them and makes the occasional mistake, than some who doesn't represent them who gives the appearance of doing so and deliberately deceives them.

There was a coup, and electoral annihilation may be a self fulfilling prophecy instigated by the very people who are claiming it. Corbyn and his supporters want to be in government It is those that are opposing and disrupting him that are ruining the party's chances for election. How can a party hope to be elected with a mob of its own MPs and former MPs running to the press with negative and often unsubstantiated stories about its own leader.
I'm afraid although Corbyn is willing to accept his mistakes many of his supporters see it as nothing less than a personal triumph. And although admitting mistakes is novel, i'd rather a politician focus on policies. Which admittedly Corbyn does but he is walking a very thin line.

500,000 is a very big number in the labour member echochamber.

But it's pretty small compared to the 9.3 million labour supporters that voted in the last election.

Not-to-mention the required amount to actually have a chance at majority government. Looking at the leadership contest is fine, however they also need to take a look at what the general voters want.

It could be argued that the leadership debacle with another challenger is taking attention away from the general public, however i'd say that there needs to be more reflection upon realistic policy. We've already seen a few questionable policy decisions such as the Trident without nukes moment as well as a perpetually uncertain stance on Europe with a very-much tone-deaf attempt to stay in the EU.

They need to pay attention to the voter. This isn't about political prostitution, it's about the delegate model; an elitist model which this nation uses. And until people are ready to overhaul such a system then we are left with then if labour are to realistically win then they need to start by finding out what the voters want and to see if it is realistic to action it.

A few things which are PROBABLY (I emphasise that as it's my own opinion so general speculation) unpopular in the public sphere.
1. Nationalisation of previously privatised services.
2. Nuclear Dis-armament
3. His decision not to support article 5 of NATO.

Those are the big ones in my mind that they need to shift policy on, and although i for one support re-nationalisation in the future, right now it's simply unrealistic, we should be saving the pennies for the inevitable train-wreck which is BREXIT.

Best regards
Francis.
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KimKallstrom
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(Original post by JamesN88)
I'm sure I can remember some idiots shouting it.

Along with the usual "red Tory" crap.
Well they do call anybody who doesn't support Corbyn these things. How much of an unhinged nut case do you have to be to call all those - irrespective of their actual views - these things? They're turning the Labour Party into a joke*
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