America's Foreign policy in 50 years, the biggest joke?

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canuck
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well, if you look into america's foreign policy, it is very different from what all the presidents say it is.

this video below is a confession from someone in the CIA
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle4068.htm

this is a list of all the dictators america has supported, its a big list, and many of these dictators killed huge amounts of their own population.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US...dictators.html

I find after reading all this information, that america is nothing but a lie. They praise freedom and democracy, but they secretly support horrible dictators and terrorists.
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canuck
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surprised not to see a vienna95 counterattack
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mobbdeeprob
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(Original post by canuck)
well, if you look into america's foreign policy, it is very different from what all the presidents say it is.

this video below is a confession from someone in the CIA
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle4068.htm
I know it's a poor quality stream, but the guy's lip movements aren't synched whatsoever to what he is saying. It looks rather dubious.
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Apollo
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(Original post by canuck)
well, if you look into america's foreign policy, it is very different from what all the presidents say it is.

this video below is a confession from someone in the CIA
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle4068.htm

this is a list of all the dictators america has supported, its a big list, and many of these dictators killed huge amounts of their own population.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US...dictators.html

I find after reading all this information, that america is nothing but a lie. They praise freedom and democracy, but they secretly support horrible dictators and terrorists.
Yeah its very easy for you to decide america is a lie, you have been saying that all along, so excuse me if i am not convinced :rolleyes:
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material breach
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American FP is based firmly on realpotik, the belief that you should always act in the way that helps your own country the most regardless of the consequences to other countries/greater moral good. So far the only President in the history of America that has acted differently is Carter, and well the less said about him the better. Personally I find it very difficult to accept that the richest most powerful country acts in this way, however every country is doing this in the world as they see it as a fight among themselves to get power/resources for their citizeans while seeminlgly giving the appearance of acting for good to the public.

Its not America's fault, every country who have ever been at all dominant in the world has acted this way. To me its the sad fact that this is the way that as humanity we force them to act, with restricted co-operation between nations due to inequality and distrust. Prehaps countries did put their personal quests aside we might be able to help the millions in poverty who face death every day however at the moment there is no reason to unite humanity.
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randdom
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(Original post by canuck)
I find after reading all this information, that america is nothing but a lie. They praise freedom and democracy, but they secretly support horrible dictators and terrorists.
I am no fan of American Foriegn policy let me assure you but I don't think that the whole of America is a lie. I don't agree with the actions that they have taken in the last 50 years but then every country has it dark places in History. I think that American politicians should look at their action in the past and see if there is anything they can do to so that they don't support someone who is killing their population in the future.
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tkfmbp
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American FP is dubious at times, but most of the time it has, and will continue to be, necessary. America tries hard to carve a future for its own citizens, and they have done a remarkable job of doing so. however it would be remiss of me to mention that they should do more for so many more, and take advantage of their mass wealth.

But we must realise that America has only become the richest nation on planet earth by being greediest. And to stay there they'll do the same. But who cares, as long as they are helping as manyu people as they can, whilst helping others as much as possible, if and when they can, then that's alright by me.

have a look at the USAID website to see how they do help abroad.
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BloodyValentine
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(Original post by tkfmbp)
American FP is dubious at times, but most of the time it has, and will continue to be, necessary. America tries hard to carve a future for its own citizens, and they have done a remarkable job of doing so. however it would be remiss of me to mention that they should do more for so many more, and take advantage of their mass wealth.

But we must realise that America has only become the richest nation on planet earth by being greediest. And to stay there they'll do the same. But who cares, as long as they are helping as manyu people as they can, whilst helping others as much as possible, if and when they can, then that's alright by me.

have a look at the USAID website to see how they do help abroad.
well they're hardly helping as many people as they can a notable example being the fact that they sell sterile seeds to african communities which destroys the sustaintable aspect of their lives and makes them dependent on american companies. america is essentially a very selfish country
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canuck
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(Original post by tkfmbp)
American FP is dubious at times, but most of the time it has, and will continue to be, necessary. America tries hard to carve a future for its own citizens, and they have done a remarkable job of doing so. however it would be remiss of me to mention that they should do more for so many more, and take advantage of their mass wealth.

But we must realise that America has only become the richest nation on planet earth by being greediest. And to stay there they'll do the same. But who cares, as long as they are helping as manyu people as they can, whilst helping others as much as possible, if and when they can, then that's alright by me.

have a look at the USAID website to see how they do help abroad.
its funy that you say this, america dosnt really donate all that much to the U.N. Countries like canada, france, and Britian are huge contributers to peace keeping. While The U.S. does the bare minimum to get by with a good image.
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canuck
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(Original post by PadFoot90)
Yeah its very easy for you to decide america is a lie, you have been saying that all along, so excuse me if i am not convinced :rolleyes:
well, did you axcctually look at the links, or did you simply ignore them?

america is a lie, the land of the free, a country that praises free rights and democracy. If you look into the atlantic charter, one thing main agreement was the right for peoples to govern themselves demorcaticly.

another thing america does is deny that it isnt an empire, when it simply is.
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Made in the USA
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(Original post by Speciez99)
American FP is based firmly on realpotik, the belief that you should always act in the way that helps your own country the most regardless of the consequences to other countries/greater moral good.
You seem to be implying that removing Saddam Hussein from power was immoral.

Wonderful guy wasn't he? When he was in power, these human rights violations, among many others, took place:
Forcing people to strip and sit on broken bottles or gas heaters
Nailing tongues to a wooden board.
Attacks on people by wild dogs.
Crucifixion by nailing ears and hands to cross.
Using a hammer to break noses and bones.
Amputating limbs with a chain saw.
Burning hands or feet with a soldering iron or boiling oil.
Dumping live bodies in acid baths or ovens.

I'm sure a lot of people don't think it was immoral getting the Iraqi Ba'athists out of power.

Explain to me what the "greater moral good" would have been to let him continue this behavior.
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Apollo
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(Original post by canuck)
well, did you axcctually look at the links, or did you simply ignore them?

america is a lie, the land of the free, a country that praises free rights and democracy. If you look into the atlantic charter, one thing main agreement was the right for peoples to govern themselves demorcaticly.

another thing america does is deny that it isnt an empire, when it simply is.
If those two links change an opinion about a country, i would be a bit worried about the person.
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Mutsuhito
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(Original post by Speciez99)
American FP is based firmly on realpotik, the belief that you should always act in the way that helps your own country the most regardless of the consequences to other countries/greater moral good.
I hear what you're saying, but I don't think it's true, or should I say it's partially true, but a non-trivial simplification. You must bear in mind that it's very difficult to even determine what is in a countries 'self-interest', as it is by no means a homogenous group. I think it would be more accurate to state that foreign policy serves, not particularly the self-interest of a state, but rather the self-interest of the most powerful members within that particular state, those with greater access to its political institutions. It follows, that the greater the disparity of wealth between members of the state's citizenry, the less self-serving their foreign policy is to the country as a whole, and more so for a lower proportion of its population; that is of course if the two are in conflict, as they often are.
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Vienna
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(Original post by Made in the USA)
You seem to be implying that removing Saddam Hussein from power was immoral.

Wonderful guy wasn't he? When he was in power, these human rights violations, among many others, took place:
Forcing people to strip and sit on broken bottles or gas heaters
Nailing tongues to a wooden board.
Attacks on people by wild dogs.
Crucifixion by nailing ears and hands to cross.
Using a hammer to break noses and bones.
Amputating limbs with a chain saw.
Burning hands or feet with a soldering iron or boiling oil.
Dumping live bodies in acid baths or ovens.

I'm sure a lot of people don't think it was immoral getting the Iraqi Ba'athists out of power.

Explain to me what the "greater moral good" would have been to let him continue this behavior.
i think the point is that the US would have not acted had this been the only consideration. personally, that doesnt cause me a great deal of concern.

we have a similar situation in Sudan, where there are a multitude of issues.

the only thing i am sure of is the hope that the US deals with it, for one reason or another, and not the UN.
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material breach
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(Original post by Made in the USA)
You seem to be implying that removing Saddam Hussein from power was immoral.

Wonderful guy wasn't he? When he was in power, these human rights violations, among many others, took place:
Forcing people to strip and sit on broken bottles or gas heaters
Nailing tongues to a wooden board.
Attacks on people by wild dogs.
Crucifixion by nailing ears and hands to cross.
Using a hammer to break noses and bones.
Amputating limbs with a chain saw.
Burning hands or feet with a soldering iron or boiling oil.
Dumping live bodies in acid baths or ovens.

I'm sure a lot of people don't think it was immoral getting the Iraqi Ba'athists out of power.

Explain to me what the "greater moral good" would have been to let him continue this behavior.
There is practically exactly the same situation in Takijisatn, myanmar, zimbabwe (a dictator enduced famine is going to kill millions), Congo (the single biggest war since WW2, has also killed millions of people) ect. If you think you are in Iraq due to moral reasons then you are sadly deluded. Stability in the middle east is in the US's direct interests
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BloodyValentine
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(Original post by Made in the USA)
You seem to be implying that removing Saddam Hussein from power was immoral.

Wonderful guy wasn't he? When he was in power, these human rights violations, among many others, took place:
Forcing people to strip and sit on broken bottles or gas heaters
Nailing tongues to a wooden board.
Attacks on people by wild dogs.
Crucifixion by nailing ears and hands to cross.
Using a hammer to break noses and bones.
Amputating limbs with a chain saw.
Burning hands or feet with a soldering iron or boiling oil.
Dumping live bodies in acid baths or ovens.

I'm sure a lot of people don't think it was immoral getting the Iraqi Ba'athists out of power.

Explain to me what the "greater moral good" would have been to let him continue this behavior.
He could have been trying to fix Daddy's mistake, and wasn't Saddam given some kind of training by the US on how to do all this?
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Vienna
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(Original post by BloodyValentine)
He could have been trying to fix Daddy's mistake
which one?

, and wasn't Saddam given some kind of training by the US on how to do all this?
shouldnt you know?
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Cossack
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(Original post by vienna95)
which one?
I think he is suggesting that Saddam should have been removed from power in 1991....
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Cossack
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(Original post by Speciez99)
There is practically exactly the same situation in Takijisatn, myanmar, zimbabwe (a dictator enduced famine is going to kill millions), Congo (the single biggest war since WW2, has also killed millions of people) ect. If you think you are in Iraq due to moral reasons then you are sadly deluded. Stability in the middle east is in the US's direct interests
The guy in charge of Tajikistan (Tajik Republic) isnt really a full blown bad guy dictator (thats the official UN terminolgy btw) - maybe you mean Turkmenistan - Turkmenbashi their leader now he is a bad bad man

EDIT having just read alittle more about him - he is a bad guy but no worse than any of the other CIS leaders....
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BloodyValentine
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(Original post by vienna95)
which one?



shouldnt you know?

the mistake to leave him in power in what at the time would have been seen as perfectly justified war . and no i don't know which is why it was phrased as a question i merely had vague memories of something like that happening probably from micheal moore that man you despise so much
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