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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    But it wouldn't work, there isn't a single system that would work well for everybody. All pupils would end up worse off if there was no selection.
    No, grammar school pupils and private school pupils would end up worse off as this across-the-board standard would be less than the standard of grammar schools and private schools.

    This national standard would also be a bit less than the standard of my school, but I'd be perfectly happy with that if it enabled more children across the country to have a deserved better education, instead of encountering barriers.
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    (Original post by thefish_uk)
    I don't think private schools should exist because they let you buy grades and I have no problem with grammar schools as long as they don't get any more money from the state than comprehensives.
    Grammars aren't my main concern, it's private schools that are most worrying as they literally do buy grades and are truly elitist.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    No, grammar school pupils and private school pupils would end up worse off as this across-the-board standard would be less than the standard of grammar schools and private schools.

    This national standard would also be a bit less than the standard of my school, but I'd be perfectly happy with that if it enabled more children across the country to have a deserved better education, instead of encountering barriers.
    That's simply not true though, if they aimed for a middle of the road target, there would be some lower ability pupils that were pushed too hard, and everyone would find the whole system highly frustrating, as those who wanted to work faster couldn't, and those who found it too much just had to try to keep up.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    That's simply not true though, if they aimed for a middle of the road target, there would be some lower ability pupils that were pushed too hard, and everyone would find the whole system highly frustrating, as those who wanted to work faster couldn't, and those who found it too much just had to try to keep up.
    Not really, there are more crap schools in the UK than good ones, so overally it would be benefiting more children, esp. those from poorer backgrounds.

    It wouldn't be a perfect system but it would work better as people would be having a similar standard of education across the country and would have to work near equally hard to attain their qualifications.

    As for the difference in "higher ability and lower abilities in the same school" - That's no different to how it is now, but it wouldn't be hard for seperate classes to be organised within the school for the brighter pupils, if deemed necessary.
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    But there are plenty of pupils who don't want to learn, they just go through the motions only to leave as soon as they can at 16. Why waste resrources on them, taking away from pupils who genuinely want to learn?
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    But there are plenty of pupils who don't want to learn, they just go through the motions only to leave as soon as they can at 16. Why waste resrources on them, taking away from pupils who genuinely want to learn?
    AH now this I disagree with, because everybody has a right to education.

    Equal money spent on everybody, I say.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    The consequences of that would be dire.

    If I went to my local comprehensive, I would have been miserable and constantly bullied simply because I wanted to learn. I used to have a social anxiety disorder - this condition would have worsened. Instead, now I do public speaking and am fairly confident in social situations.
    This is irrelevant to the discussion. You could have got bullied if you went to Eton, it's completely irrelevant.

    I'm talking on a national scale her, and your counter argument is that it would make you upset (because you go to the best school in the UK).

    If you have problems, go see someone. Your argument in the above post is irrelevant when discussing education nationally.
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    (Original post by thefish_uk)
    AH now this I disagree with, because everybody has a right to education.

    Equal money spent on everybody, I say.
    Yes, so if everyone hasa right to education, surely those who want to learn have a right to not have their education spolit by those who aren't interested in academic studies.
    Personally I support the idea that those who wich to do vocational courses at 14/15 schould be able to.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    But there are plenty of pupils who don't want to learn, they just go through the motions only to leave as soon as they can at 16. Why waste resrources on them, taking away from pupils who genuinely want to learn?
    I agree, that's another issue to deal with. But there are also people who crap at grammar schools and private schools, and many who get mediocre grades purely due to the school and pushiness of parents.

    We can't change people's work ethics and intelligence levels, but national reformation is possible.

    It would also make uni applications easier.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    I'm talking on a national scale her, and your counter argument is that it would make you upset (because you go to the best school in the UK).
    Who goes to the best school in the UK?

    This one? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...l/870_5413.stm
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    This is irrelevant to the discussion. You could have got bullied if you went to Eton, it's completely irrelevant.

    I'm talking on a national scale her, and your counter argument is that it would make you upset (because you go to the best school in the UK).

    If you have problems, go see someone. Your argument in the above post is irrelevant when discussing education nationally.
    But it has been argued in quite a few cases that some people particularly thrive in a grammar school/competitivee situation whilst other pupils do better in a less competitive evniroment.
    If there was only to be a "one size fits all" system I think there would have to be large amount of setting in place to separate those who wanted to work and those who didn't.
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    (Original post by Louise_1988)
    Yes, so if everyone hasa right to education, surely those who want to learn have a right to not have their education spolit by those who aren't interested in academic studies.
    Personally I support the idea that those who wich to do vocational courses at 14/15 schould be able to.
    Yes, but dealing with dossers is a seperate issue to the current one.

    I don't think going elsewhere to buy grades solves anything, only convenience for wealthy people.
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    (Original post by Louise_1988)
    Yes, so if everyone hasa right to education, surely those who want to learn have a right to not have their education spolit by those who aren't interested in academic studies.
    Personally I support the idea that those who wich to do vocational courses at 14/15 schould be able to.
    Seconded. Academia isn't for everyone, people are intelligent in different ways, those that don't want to be at school, and wish to pursue more vocational interests should be allowed to, leaving those who want to stay in school to get on with it undisrupted.
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    (Original post by Louise_1988)
    But it has been argued in quite a few cases that some people particularly thrive in a grammar school/competitivee situation whilst other pupils do better in a less competitive evniroment.
    If there was only to be a "one size fits all" system I think there would have to be large amount of setting in place to separate those who wanted to work and those who didn't.
    Yes, there would need to be. I don't see why there can't be seperate classes within these schools so the teachers could teach at a pace suited to the students or to avoid dossers.

    "But it has been argued in quite a few cases that some people particularly thrive in a grammar school/competitivee situation" - So they are thriving due to the school then, not themselves. Hence the dependance on the school (mainly), not primarily their own abilities.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    Yes, but dealing with dossers is a seperate issue to the current one.

    I don't think going elsewhere to buy grades solves anything, only convenience for wealthy people.
    I think we need to get away from the buying grades idea. For the top schools there may be 15 people competing for one place, only the best candidate gets in, so to start with they have the very high abitiy pupils, if this so called "spoon feeding" was in place, then why don't the state schools opperate the same policy? You'll find that both private and state schools are desperate to score high in the legue tables so both will teach the pupils to pass exams.

    But back to the dossers, i think that in a comprehensive system something really does need to be done to help those who are really motivated, if that is setting in subjects then that would be the best way.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    Seconded. Academia isn't for everyone, people are intelligent in different ways, those that don't want to be at school, and wish to pursue more vocational interests should be allowed to, leaving those who want to stay in school to get on with it undisrupted.
    Yes, but that's another issue - Policies could be put in place for dossers, but I don't see why the one standard of education nationwide idea is so bad.

    It's bad for those dependant on the school in doing well, rather than themselves.
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    (Original post by Louise_1988)
    I think we need to get away from the buying grades idea.
    I think we need to accept that pupils who go to a private school would on average do better than one of the same ability at a comprehensive school. This is due to money, wealth, buying the grades in effect.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    Yes, there would need to be. I don't see why there can't be seperate classes within these schools so the teachers could teach at a pace suited to the students or to avoid dossers.

    "But it has been argued in quite a few cases that some people particularly thrive in a grammar school/competitivee situation" - So they are thriving due to the school then, not themselves. Hence the dependance on the school (mainly), not primarily their own abilities.
    You can have all the resources and teaching in the world, if you're not clever and you don't want to work, you won't pass your exams. My teachers are great, but I'm not spoon-fed stuff, some people in my classes get D's, some get A's, because some work and some don't. I think it's very much dependent on an individual's ability, regradless of where they go to school.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    "But it has been argued in quite a few cases that some people particularly thrive in a grammar school/competitivee situation" - So they are thriving due to the school then, not themselves. Hence the dependance on the school (mainly), not primarily their own abilities.
    They are thriving because the enviroment allowes them to reach their full capiablilities, which they would not be able to do in a comprehensive, in the same way that another pupils may feel disheartened in a very academic enviroment of a grammar and would be better off as a relitively high achiever in a comprehensive.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    I think that idealy, both shouldn't exist and everyone should be entitled to the same standard of education.
    lol, same standard of education? how? if there is a method, this would almost certainly lower the standards of schools
 
 
 
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