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Reply 1

S+T end up in tescos usually.

Reply 2

kstone122
Assuming I were to start in S&T and realized that it's not for me would it take an MBA to change career paths? Where do ex S&Ters generally go (other than hedge funds)? Thanks.


try do an internship within this.. and that'll give you a very good insight.. if your already graduate and have the necessary skills/abilities to get into s & t than im sure you can get into other divisions within an IB..

Reply 3

How difficult is it to get a summer internship in S&T out of interest?

Reply 4

loggins
How difficult is it to get a summer internship in S&T out of interest?


quite difficult to be honest.. i can quote from head of HR at a Bulge Bracket IB, they receievd around 15,000 applications last year for S & T summer internship..

not exactly sure how many were accepted, think around the 100-150 mark..

Reply 5

Owch, how do the odds compare with a summer position in the back office (ops, HR etc...)?

Reply 6

loggins
Owch, how do the odds compare with a summer position in the back office (ops, HR etc...)?


much better odds of BO.. But kinda tedious and repetitive work lies in those depts..

Reply 7

Yeah, im just thinking of applying mainly to back office for next summer though, then the summer after apply to front office spots (am on a four year course you see. Do you think this is a good idea? (apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread!)

Reply 8

yeh.. thats what i did.. started off at operations at a hedge fund after my a levels.. n trying to work my way up.. it will definitely help you land interviews for Front Office internships..

Reply 9

Sweet, will do that then, apply for back office at the BBs, then middle/front at some of the smaller banks. Cheers bud!

Reply 10

kstone122
Assuming I were to start in S&T and realized that it's not for me would it take an MBA to change career paths? Where do ex S&Ters generally go (other than hedge funds)? Thanks.


It really depends what career paths you mean.

Reply 11

Econ4m1t
yeh.. thats what i did.. started off at operations at a hedge fund after my a levels.. n trying to work my way up.. it will definitely help you land interviews for Front Office internships..

Is it? I thought BO is a "blackhole" and that it is better for us to do other things and stay away from it?

shady lane
And I think it's still a better career choice to get an FO offer in the Middle East than to have a BO offer in London. Better for your further interviews, and better when you want to lateral. I know people who waitressed and temped rather than take a BO offer; they kept applying until they finally got into front office. It's a black hole, seriously; better to avoid it at all costs, unless that's the career you want.

shady lane
I'd say yes, solely because you can BS that into saying you wanted international experience.

The key to interview success is to DEFEND YOUR CV. I know this sounds basic, but if you have the gift of gab, you can make anything relevant. However, some things are harder to defend than others. I have friends who took internships at non-IBs instead of BO--and it worked for them as they got IB full-time offers the next year. It's much easier to explain why you took an internship at Unilever ("I realized that marketing simply isn't my passion"), than to explain why you worked in Ops.


So which one is more correct? :confused:

Reply 12

spencer-smith
Is it? I thought BO is a "blackhole" and that it is better for us to do other things and stay away from it?




So which one is more correct? :confused:



its def a stepping stone if its before your penultimate yr of uni..

Reply 13

Yeah, I think Shady's quotes aren't in the context of my situation. If I was actually a pentultimate year student I most definately wouldn't consider back office, but seeing as though I've got the summer after next aswell I might aswell take what I can get. Having said this, I will be applying front office positions at the smaller banks aswell.

Reply 14

soilman
S+T end up in tescos usually.


Fair point, though not trading.

Reply 15

PortfolioManager
Fair point, though not trading.

??? :confused: I thought Sales is FO?

Reply 16

From another forum on the subject:

Well, for starters, don't be a sales guy on a flow desk. If you want to make any real money and be able to stay in this business for more than a few years then you need some deriv/structured work. That said, even though exit opps for traders are more "clear", as you put it, exit opps for sales are probably a little more broad, especially as you get to the more structured products. The reason is that on a more structured desk the sales person is in control of the deal, so they have to have a working knowledge of every aspect of complex deals: structuring the bespoke product, knowing how the traders will hedge the product, knowing the legal and credit aspects of the trade and the counterparty, etc. So you have your hands in everything, so as a result you have more exit opps. Using commodities as an example, a sales person there can exit into a hedge fund, private equity, or industry. And probably consulting if for some reason you wanted to. All that said, if you are a sales guy on a pure, vanilla flow desk, then I'm not too sure what your exit opps are. But I came into S&T out of an MBA program, so 99% of the people I am familiar with that went into sales went to more complex desks.

Reply 17

I read the other time that Sales is the easiest to get into. Is that true?

Is Sales considerably easier to get into than Trading? Normally per 100 Sales person hired many Traders are hired?

Reply 18

Interesting. Makes sense for Sales to move into Private Equity. They can do allot of LBO and sale/leaseback modelling and financial engineer buy-outs ? Although would be more appropriate to sales people who have exposure to complex products such as debt instruments. But in a nutshell, if you want to know what sales involves, the description below pretty much covers it:

Keeping clients happy
The main role of an investment banking sales person is to keep clients up to date with the latest research and ideas produced by the bank. Typically, each asset class - such as equities, bonds and derivatives - will have its own sales force and these tend to be further split on a geographical and sector basis.

Starting out
Sales teams tend to work in small units with new recruits likely to join a particular team as the desk assistant.

Newcomers are likely to be given many of the mundane tasks to do - but rest assured, that will not last forever. On the plus side it gives new recruits the opportunity to learn about a particular area before speaking directly to clients. For example, to join an equity sales team, it is necessary to be knowledgeable about the 200 to 300 companies typically covered by the research department. Also during this period it may be necessary to undertake regulatory exams, such as the SFA (Securities and Futures Authority).

A typical day
Sales staff are normally the earliest starters at the bank - arriving between 0630 and 0700. They are likely to have already scanned the newspapers on the way into the office and then once at their desk use the electronic news services to obtain updates on the latest news stories.

Most investment banks hold a morning meeting for the sales force, typically around 0730. At this meeting, analysts will update the sales force on their latest thoughts, reviewing economic and company information that has been released overnight and giving their opinion on data expected later in the day.

Having picked out the salient points from the morning meeting, the sales force will start phoning around clients giving them a rundown of the day's news. As information is announced during the day, clients will need to be kept informed of changes.

In the afternoon, things will typically be quieter, giving sales staff the chance to catch up on reading some of the new research produced by analysts. In addition, there will often be sales meetings at which analysts give the sales force a more detailed update on their latest research ideas. Increasingly, sales is becoming more about account management, so staff will spend a lot of time arranging meetings between clients and analysts for example.

What makes a good sales person?
As with all sales jobs, excellent communication skills are obviously a prerequisite for the role. Since the client base is both highly sophisticated and has a good understanding of the issues involved, sales staff must be able to present ideas clearly and concisely.

The best sales people tend to be those with a real enthusiasm for the role and who build a real rapport with their clients. They will also need to handle pressure well, since both colleagues and clients will expect questions to be answered and problems resolved quickly.

A banking sales job will appeal to those with an active interest in financial markets, but who would prefer a role with a bias towards personal contact - in contrast to the more analytically orientated areas such as research and corporate finance.

Reply 19

In that case Sales is not "brain" of the bank, but the mouth and hands... The traders and analysts are the hearts and brains of the bank.

So is it better to aim for Trading and Analysts roles?