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    This forum is littered with interlectual topics about whether American foreign policy is right or wrong, death in the form of discussion on abortions, legality dicussing whether our courts are set up the right way, politics and which political philisophy provides the best path. That is all good and well however what with this being a student forum I thought I would try and write a thread that was actually relevant to us.

    Alot of the values in our developed society are wrong in my opinion and this directly affects us. One only has to look at the papers to see this.

    Consider what we think is beautiful,
    Take this as an example Every day we as teenagers are condemed and thought less of if we aren't deemed what society terms to be beautiful. This forces people I know to self harm in responce, girls to op for plastic surgry all in an attempt to try and match celebrites that use tones of make up to hide their faults.

    Sex is another. We as teenagers are pressured into loosing it I would say, and those girls haven't "burst their bubble" are thought of as frigid. Mean while boys are encourage to sleep with as many people as possible to show their mascalinity. Frankly its a ridiculous notion either way.

    Despite all the things that we have in our society to keep us happy as teenagers with more and more gadgets like phones, playstations, television ect the number of teenager sucides have been gradually rising since WW2.

    Those who reject the convertional eg. like gothic culture are exploited even further as they seek to get the black trench coat. I could go on but I will stop there and I would greatly appreciate any views on this:
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    (Original post by Lord Gnostic)
    Values are determined by one's perspective - one's perspective is dependent upon one's position - and all positions are relative to each other.

    One can argue for and against any value.

    Next topic please...
    the majority of the people in society hold the same value and that is what I am arguing aganst, not the values of an indivdual, some values have greater merit than others two
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Consider what we think is beautiful,
    Take this as an example Every day we as teenagers are condemed and thought less of if we aren't deemed what society terms to be beautiful. This forces people I know to self harm in responce, girls to op for plastic surgry all in an attempt to try and match celebrites that use tones of make up to hide their faults.
    What is worst about it is the fact that some magazines and companies actually play on this insecurity to make money.

    Sex is another. We as teenagers are pressured into loosing it I would say, and those girls haven't "burst their bubble" are thought of as frigid. Mean while boys are encourage to sleep with as many people as possible to show their mascalinity. Frankly its a ridiculous notion either way.
    When it comes to girls and sex it is really unfair. If you do sleep with someone then you are a slut and if your don't you are frigid.
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    I think adolescents linger at the transitional stage from total ignorance (childhood) to complete physical maturity (adulthood). They seek to define themselves in some way, most seek to define themselves physically (ref. the sexual issues you reffered to) but few seek mental or metaphysical 'grounding' as it were, those that do (i.e. pupils who achieve good results in the education system) only do so slightly and still remain very much the same as everyone else in their pursuit for physical delight.
    I'm not sure why this is so, it has a lot to do with society, youth culture and determinism- but what i am sure of is that those who sincerely wish to surmount these set-backs can do so, albeit at the cost of following a largely desolate and lonely path.
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    (Original post by Lord Gnostic)
    Nope - all relative to one's position. Toxic water is bad for humans but jolly good for certain types of fish. Toxic water is not absolutely bad or absolutely good - it's relative. Etc etc.
    And we are talking about societies values relative to teenagers, welcome to the discussion
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    Take this as an example Every day we as teenagers are condemed and thought less of if we aren't deemed what society terms to be beautiful. This forces people I know to self harm in responce, girls to op for plastic surgry all in an attempt to try and match celebrites that use tones of make up to hide their faults.

    Sex is another. We as teenagers are pressured into loosing it I would say, and those girls haven't "burst their bubble" are thought of as frigid. Mean while boys are encourage to sleep with as many people as possible to show their mascalinity. Frankly its a ridiculous notion either way.

    Despite all the things that we have in our society to keep us happy as teenagers with more and more gadgets like phones, playstations, television ect the number of teenager sucides have been gradually rising since WW2.

    Those who reject the convertional eg. like gothic culture are exploited even further as they seek to get the black trench coat. I could go on but I will stop there and I would greatly appreciate any views on this:[/QUOTE]

    your post is fascinating. In my view, our Western/decadent/corrupt society is still the best thing mankind has worked out since 3000 BC (time of the first written documents).

    This said, nobody's perfect. The Muslims keep bugging us that we are corrupt and even (very new) obese and that Islam is the only way out etc.

    This is, of course, ridicoulous. Still, you say, teen-agers are not happy and teen-age suicides are on the rise. Are you sure about this? have you checked any statistics?

    Freedom, democracy, are magnificent things, but still of little use if you are lomesome and unhappy. Sexual promiscuity is not a solution, but wandering around in your burka/tchador is hardly better.

    What is my advice? do not follow fashions (Britney, the Ayatollahs, Michael Moore etc.) Try to think with your own brains. You will commit terrible errors, but at least it will have been your own

    Best of luck
    .
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    (Original post by giordano)
    your post is fascinating. In my view, our Western/decadent/corrupt society is still the best thing mankind has worked out since 3000 BC (time of the first written documents).
    I agree that our society here in Britain is one of the best in the history of the world, the children are not being forced to work, have freedom of speech, freedom from violence ect but that does not necessarily bring happiness, and that makes the apparent lack of happiness among some individuals all the more stranger. Even so you can see the point I am making about the values, surely you seem it as strange that we still worship beauty models in our sociey with no reason to do so.
    (Original post by giordano)
    This said, nobody's perfect. The Muslims keep bugging us that we are corrupt and even (very new) obese and that Islam is the only way out etc.

    This is, of course, ridicoulous. Still, you say, teen-agers are not happy and teen-age suicides are on the rise. Are you sure about this? have you checked any statistics?
    In America: (similar culture)
    Between 1950 and 1992, suicide among adolescents and young adults has nearly tripled, according to the CDC. From 1980 to 1992, suicide among American teens 15 to 19 years old rose 28.3 percent, increasing from 1,797 to 1,847. During that same time period the suicide rate for children 10 to 14 has grown 120 percent. In 1992, the last year for which statistics are available, 304 children 10 to 14 years old killed themselves. from here
    I did have the stats for britain but I forgot to bookmark the site
    (Original post by giordano)
    Freedom, democracy, are magnificent things, but still of little use if you are lomesome and unhappy. Sexual promiscuity is not a solution, but wandering around in your burka/tchador is hardly better.

    What is my advice? do not follow fashions (Britney, the Ayatollahs, Michael Moore etc.) Try to think with your own brains. You will commit terrible errors, but at least it will have been your own

    Best of luck
    quite (to borrow other peoples words)
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    (Original post by Lord Gnostic)
    We should reject American *******isation of our civilisation, and do what Sparta did to her young.
    do you care to explain that more? Most of us havent got a clue what you are talking about and since this is a debate forum if you want anyone to respond you might want them to understand your point
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    (Original post by Lord Gnostic)
    Well, if you dont know how ******* American "culture" is then no amount of explanation from me is going to remedy that.

    And I cannot be held responsible for your lack of knowledge of ancient Greece.
    Thanks for being so helpful, I was wondering if you were going to explain the Ancient Greek bit? Obviously not tho.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    do you care to explain that more? Most of us havent got a clue what you are talking about and since this is a debate forum if you want anyone to respond you might want them to understand your point
    The spartans would leave their newborn children on a hill top for the first night of their lives to see if they would survive i think, im not much of a classicist though. I believe they also encouraged their children to fight for their food and to steal - if you were caught you were punished not for attempting to thieve, but for failing in your attempt to do so or some such.
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    speciez.. i believe he is refering to the conscription of young adolescents and the very severe and stern experience they endured during their service in the military e.g. those unable to reach the required standard were thrown off cliffs.
    To a lesser extent, the general environment youths lived in was also detestable e.g. if a boy stole something he would be beaten- not for stealing but for getting caught.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Consider what we think is beautiful,
    Take this as an example Every day we as teenagers are condemed and thought less of if we aren't deemed what society terms to be beautiful. This forces people I know to self harm in responce, girls to op for plastic surgry all in an attempt to try and match celebrites that use tones of make up to hide their faults.
    I would expect nothing more from Trinity Mirror Group.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    I agree that our society here in Britain is one of the best in the history of the world, the children are not being forced to work, have freedom of speech, freedom from violence ect but that does not necessarily bring happiness, and that makes the apparent lack of happiness among some individuals all the more stranger. Even so you can see the point I am making about the values, surely you seem it as strange that we still worship beauty models in our sociey with no reason to do so.

    In America: (similar culture)
    Between 1950 and 1992, suicide among adolescents and young adults has nearly tripled, according to the CDC. From 1980 to 1992, suicide among American teens 15 to 19 years old rose 28.3 percent, increasing from 1,797 to 1,847. During that same time period the suicide rate for children 10 to 14 has grown 120 percent. In 1992, the last year for which statistics are available, 304 children 10 to 14 years old killed themselves. from here
    I did have the stats for britain but I forgot to bookmark the site
    quite (to borrow other peoples words)
    Hmmm...my first reaction would be to say that statistical accuracy is now much better than in the past. For religious reasons, people tried to avoid deaths being recognized as suicides.

    Still, you do have a point. But do you really think that we worship beauty with no apparent reason? I am very much attracted by beauty, and so are probably most people.

    As the saying goes, Beauty is only skin deep, but I would gladly compromise with that.

    Where I think that you are absolutely right, is when you imply that people live in an imaginary world, in which they compare themselves with Britney etc. They would be better advised to try and seduce their next-door neighbour.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    I agree that our society here in Britain is one of the best in the history of the world, the children are not being forced to work, have freedom of speech, freedom from violence ect but that does not necessarily bring happiness, and that makes the apparent lack of happiness among some individuals all the more stranger. Even so you can see the point I am making about the values, surely you seem it as strange that we still worship beauty models in our sociey with no reason to do so.

    In America: (similar culture)
    Between 1950 and 1992, suicide among adolescents and young adults has nearly tripled, according to the CDC. From 1980 to 1992, suicide among American teens 15 to 19 years old rose 28.3 percent, increasing from 1,797 to 1,847. During that same time period the suicide rate for children 10 to 14 has grown 120 percent. In 1992, the last year for which statistics are available, 304 children 10 to 14 years old killed themselves. from here
    I did have the stats for britain but I forgot to bookmark the site
    quite (to borrow other peoples words)
    Hmmm...my first reaction would be to say that statistical accuracy is now much better than in the past. For religious reasons, people tried to avoid deaths being recognized as suicides.

    Still, you do have a point. But do you really think that we worship beauty with no apparent reason? I am very much attracted by beauty, and so are probably most people.

    As the saying goes, Beauty is only skin deep, but I would gladly compromise with that.

    Where I think that you are absolutely right, is when you imply that people live in an imaginary world, in which they compare themselves with Britney etc. They would be better advised to try and seduce their next-door neighbour.
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    [QUOTE=Speciez99], suicide among American teens 15 to 19 years old rose 28.3 percent, increasing from 1,797 to 1,847.)[/QUOTE

    I made some calculations. An increase from 1,797 to 1,847 is 2.8 percent, not 28 percent
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    (Original post by giordano)
    Hmmm...my first reaction would be to say that statistical accuracy is now much better than in the past. For religious reasons, people tried to avoid deaths being recognized as suicides.
    quite, I was going to put a comment saying I realised how stats had become more accurate. And I would certainly agree that the decline of religion this century has had a massive impact. We no longer have the solid moral reference point even if it was off on a few things like birth control.
    (Original post by giordano)
    Still, you do have a point. But do you really think that we worship beauty with no apparent reason? I am very much attracted by beauty, and so are probably most people.

    As the saying goes, Beauty is only skin deep, but I would gladly compromise with that.

    Where I think that you are absolutely right, is when you imply that people live in an imaginary world, in which they compare themselves with Britney etc. They would be better advised to try and seduce their next-door neighbour.
    Quite again religion may have a role here, I have heard it said that we are still looking for role models in the wake of losing God so to speak and that celebrities are societies replacement. I think this raises two problems, these celebrites are people and we need to protect their lives and secoundly I think that people need to realise that they are far from perfect and hence idiolising them isnt always the greatest thing.
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    (Original post by giordano)
    (Original post by Speciez99)
    , suicide among American teens 15 to 19 years old rose 28.3 percent, increasing from 1,797 to 1,847.)
    I made some calculations. An increase from 1,797 to 1,847 is 2.8 percent, not 28 percent
    lol wonder where the mistake was in the stat or the percentage, either way they have risen
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    (Original post by Lucid87)
    speciez.. i believe he is refering to the conscription of young adolescents and the very severe and stern experience they endured during their service in the military e.g. those unable to reach the required standard were thrown off cliffs.
    To a lesser extent, the general environment youths lived in was also detestable e.g. if a boy stole something he would be beaten- not for stealing but for getting caught.
    As dicussed before conscription if that is what is he implying is being cut down in Germany, its also termendously expensive.
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    [QUOTE=Speciez99]quite, we are still looking for role models in the wake of losing God so to speak and celebrities are societies replacement. I think this raises two problems, these celebrites are people and we need to protect their lives and secondly I think that people need to realise that they are far from perfect and hence idolising them isn't always the greatest thing.QUOTE

    I agree that God is a hard act to follow.

    In my view, the main problem is that we are very strongly influenced by the medias, and TV first of all, so that we can confidently affirm that what is not seen on television , in reality does not exist.

    Probably the worst offence you could do to media celebrities is to protect their private lives. They relish, and strongly seek, any publicity.

    You are too cruel with them.
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    (Original post by giordano)
    I agree that God is a hard act to follow.

    In my view, the main problem is that we are very strongly influenced by the medias, and TV first of all, so that we can confidently affirm that what is not seen on television , in reality does not exist.
    sorry but what goes wrong with your quotes all the time?
    And i would agree strongly with those points
 
 
 
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