The pressure for masculinity is harder than for femininity
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Original post by sound of silence
The pressure for men to be masculine is, I think, far more burdensome, difficult and stressful than the pressure for women to be feminine.
1. Toughness vs Fragility
Being tough requires having courage and overcoming fear. Being fragile allows you to avoid facing fear. Would you rather have to pluck up the courage and risk danger to stave off a burglar or go to war or get in a fight or would you rather be scared and fragile and be accepted and protected in return?
2. Muscular vs Slim
Being tall and muscular requires genetic luck for height and the difficult task of building muscle while maintaining a six pack. Being short as a man is terrible from birth with no silver lining. As for women, being smaller than men and slim requires genetic luck again for height - but if you are tall your long legs are praised and/or it is not as stigmatised anywhere near the extent. Would you rather have to try and build muscle through a time-consuming and expensive process as well as do cardio to stay lean for a six-pack or simply do cardio and spend less money on food to lose fat? Women are born regular sized and may over-eat and then need to lose fat. Men are born regular sized but have to build muscle if they want any respect and to be attractive. From birth we are at a disadvantage.
3. Boyfriend vs Girlfriend
Would you rather have to pursue a love interest, be the one to ask them out, fight off competition, risk your reputation and put your dignity on the line, deal with rejection and be savagely disrespected for being a virgin or sit back and wait for men to approach you, deal with far less rejection, and be even more attractive for your virginity? Which sounds more difficult?
4. Practical vs Impractical
Men, due to the pressure of toughness and physical ability, are expected to jump start cars, mow the lawn, drive well, do DIY, etc. If you cannot do these things, your very masculinity is questioned, however irrational this is, we are simply forced to accept it. On top of this we are expected to share the cleaning and housework which is all women help with. As soon as something is in the realm of practical/physical, it is the man's job. As someone who has just bought my first car at 23 years-old and hasn't driven since passing my test 6 years ago, this has been particularly interesting to observe. The constant passive-aggressive questioning of my manhood for not yet being an expert parker after 1 week of driving or not knowing the ins-and-outs of how the engine works or not being comfortable driving a large van, etc. is curious to say the least - and the biggest culprits of this sexism? Women of course.
5. Careers
If a woman pursues a typically masculine job she is praised for her independence, strength and courage. If a man pursues a typically feminine job he is demonised by his peers and unattractive to women who hold masculinity high in their ranking of turn-ons. If a man becomes a house-husband and/or is unemployed, he is weak, unreliable, feminine and pathetic. If a woman becomes a house-wife and/or is unemployed, she is fairly accepted. She has the choice for either a successful career or staying at home. Men have no such choice - the pressure is relentless.
Thoughts and rebuttals welcome. Rational arguments only. Please ensure you stick to the issue of the pressure to be masculine/feminine.
1. Toughness vs Fragility
Being tough requires having courage and overcoming fear. Being fragile allows you to avoid facing fear. Would you rather have to pluck up the courage and risk danger to stave off a burglar or go to war or get in a fight or would you rather be scared and fragile and be accepted and protected in return?
2. Muscular vs Slim
Being tall and muscular requires genetic luck for height and the difficult task of building muscle while maintaining a six pack. Being short as a man is terrible from birth with no silver lining. As for women, being smaller than men and slim requires genetic luck again for height - but if you are tall your long legs are praised and/or it is not as stigmatised anywhere near the extent. Would you rather have to try and build muscle through a time-consuming and expensive process as well as do cardio to stay lean for a six-pack or simply do cardio and spend less money on food to lose fat? Women are born regular sized and may over-eat and then need to lose fat. Men are born regular sized but have to build muscle if they want any respect and to be attractive. From birth we are at a disadvantage.
3. Boyfriend vs Girlfriend
Would you rather have to pursue a love interest, be the one to ask them out, fight off competition, risk your reputation and put your dignity on the line, deal with rejection and be savagely disrespected for being a virgin or sit back and wait for men to approach you, deal with far less rejection, and be even more attractive for your virginity? Which sounds more difficult?
4. Practical vs Impractical
Men, due to the pressure of toughness and physical ability, are expected to jump start cars, mow the lawn, drive well, do DIY, etc. If you cannot do these things, your very masculinity is questioned, however irrational this is, we are simply forced to accept it. On top of this we are expected to share the cleaning and housework which is all women help with. As soon as something is in the realm of practical/physical, it is the man's job. As someone who has just bought my first car at 23 years-old and hasn't driven since passing my test 6 years ago, this has been particularly interesting to observe. The constant passive-aggressive questioning of my manhood for not yet being an expert parker after 1 week of driving or not knowing the ins-and-outs of how the engine works or not being comfortable driving a large van, etc. is curious to say the least - and the biggest culprits of this sexism? Women of course.
5. Careers
If a woman pursues a typically masculine job she is praised for her independence, strength and courage. If a man pursues a typically feminine job he is demonised by his peers and unattractive to women who hold masculinity high in their ranking of turn-ons. If a man becomes a house-husband and/or is unemployed, he is weak, unreliable, feminine and pathetic. If a woman becomes a house-wife and/or is unemployed, she is fairly accepted. She has the choice for either a successful career or staying at home. Men have no such choice - the pressure is relentless.
Thoughts and rebuttals welcome. Rational arguments only. Please ensure you stick to the issue of the pressure to be masculine/feminine.
i agree that it is harder to make it as a man
Original post by Princepieman
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
Posted from TSR Mobile
With all due respect, it's a misconception that girls are at a higher risk of assaults.
Overall, it's actually the other way around. According to this global study, 80% of homicide victims are men - https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/GSH2013/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf
Of course, women are more likely to suffer from intimate partner homicide and such, but overall, men tend to be victims of violence way more often.
Seems like a great way to deal with this issue would be to not put societal pressure on people based on the word the midwife says after they look between their legs.
Original post by richpanda
tfw when 6'2, 12% BF broad shoulders and not thick as a rock...
tamw you don't know how acronyms work
Original post by macromicro
tamw you don't know how acronyms work
I'm slightly drunk so I'll blame it on that
Original post by Princepieman
What are you taking about? You said women are more likely to be assaulted and I said that actually men are more likely statistically.
Original post by Ano9901whichone
What are you taking about? You said women are more likely to be assaulted and I said that actually men are more likely statistically.
Assaulted sexually.. It kind of fits in the context of rape you know.
Men getting assualted by men/women isn't because they are male, it's due to other factors. Women getting sexually assaulted is pretty squarely because of their gender.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by sound of silence
The pressure for men to be masculine is, I think, far more burdensome, difficult and stressful than the pressure for women to be feminine.
1. Toughness vs Fragility
Being tough requires having courage and overcoming fear. Being fragile allows you to avoid facing fear. Would you rather have to pluck up the courage and risk danger to stave off a burglar or go to war or get in a fight or would you rather be scared and fragile and be accepted and protected in return?
2. Muscular vs Slim
Being tall and muscular requires genetic luck for height and the difficult task of building muscle while maintaining a six pack. Being short as a man is terrible from birth with no silver lining. As for women, being smaller than men and slim requires genetic luck again for height - but if you are tall your long legs are praised and/or it is not as stigmatised anywhere near the extent. Would you rather have to try and build muscle through a time-consuming and expensive process as well as do cardio to stay lean for a six-pack or simply do cardio and spend less money on food to lose fat? Women are born regular sized and may over-eat and then need to lose fat. Men are born regular sized but have to build muscle if they want any respect and to be attractive. From birth we are at a disadvantage.
3. Boyfriend vs Girlfriend
Would you rather have to pursue a love interest, be the one to ask them out, fight off competition, risk your reputation and put your dignity on the line, deal with rejection and be savagely disrespected for being a virgin or sit back and wait for men to approach you, deal with far less rejection, and be even more attractive for your virginity? Which sounds more difficult?
4. Practical vs Impractical
Men, due to the pressure of toughness and physical ability, are expected to jump start cars, mow the lawn, drive well, do DIY, etc. If you cannot do these things, your very masculinity is questioned, however irrational this is, we are simply forced to accept it. On top of this we are expected to share the cleaning and housework which is all women help with. As soon as something is in the realm of practical/physical, it is the man's job. As someone who has just bought my first car at 23 years-old and hasn't driven since passing my test 6 years ago, this has been particularly interesting to observe. The constant passive-aggressive questioning of my manhood for not yet being an expert parker after 1 week of driving or not knowing the ins-and-outs of how the engine works or not being comfortable driving a large van, etc. is curious to say the least - and the biggest culprits of this sexism? Women of course.
5. Careers
If a woman pursues a typically masculine job she is praised for her independence, strength and courage. If a man pursues a typically feminine job he is demonised by his peers and unattractive to women who hold masculinity high in their ranking of turn-ons. If a man becomes a house-husband and/or is unemployed, he is weak, unreliable, feminine and pathetic. If a woman becomes a house-wife and/or is unemployed, she is fairly accepted. She has the choice for either a successful career or staying at home. Men have no such choice - the pressure is relentless.
Thoughts and rebuttals welcome. Rational arguments only. Please ensure you stick to the issue of the pressure to be masculine/feminine.
1. Toughness vs Fragility
Being tough requires having courage and overcoming fear. Being fragile allows you to avoid facing fear. Would you rather have to pluck up the courage and risk danger to stave off a burglar or go to war or get in a fight or would you rather be scared and fragile and be accepted and protected in return?
2. Muscular vs Slim
Being tall and muscular requires genetic luck for height and the difficult task of building muscle while maintaining a six pack. Being short as a man is terrible from birth with no silver lining. As for women, being smaller than men and slim requires genetic luck again for height - but if you are tall your long legs are praised and/or it is not as stigmatised anywhere near the extent. Would you rather have to try and build muscle through a time-consuming and expensive process as well as do cardio to stay lean for a six-pack or simply do cardio and spend less money on food to lose fat? Women are born regular sized and may over-eat and then need to lose fat. Men are born regular sized but have to build muscle if they want any respect and to be attractive. From birth we are at a disadvantage.
3. Boyfriend vs Girlfriend
Would you rather have to pursue a love interest, be the one to ask them out, fight off competition, risk your reputation and put your dignity on the line, deal with rejection and be savagely disrespected for being a virgin or sit back and wait for men to approach you, deal with far less rejection, and be even more attractive for your virginity? Which sounds more difficult?
4. Practical vs Impractical
Men, due to the pressure of toughness and physical ability, are expected to jump start cars, mow the lawn, drive well, do DIY, etc. If you cannot do these things, your very masculinity is questioned, however irrational this is, we are simply forced to accept it. On top of this we are expected to share the cleaning and housework which is all women help with. As soon as something is in the realm of practical/physical, it is the man's job. As someone who has just bought my first car at 23 years-old and hasn't driven since passing my test 6 years ago, this has been particularly interesting to observe. The constant passive-aggressive questioning of my manhood for not yet being an expert parker after 1 week of driving or not knowing the ins-and-outs of how the engine works or not being comfortable driving a large van, etc. is curious to say the least - and the biggest culprits of this sexism? Women of course.
5. Careers
If a woman pursues a typically masculine job she is praised for her independence, strength and courage. If a man pursues a typically feminine job he is demonised by his peers and unattractive to women who hold masculinity high in their ranking of turn-ons. If a man becomes a house-husband and/or is unemployed, he is weak, unreliable, feminine and pathetic. If a woman becomes a house-wife and/or is unemployed, she is fairly accepted. She has the choice for either a successful career or staying at home. Men have no such choice - the pressure is relentless.
Thoughts and rebuttals welcome. Rational arguments only. Please ensure you stick to the issue of the pressure to be masculine/feminine.
A little off topic, but who on Earth do you surround yourself with? O_o
People that expect things from others based on their sex are *******s. You shouldn't have to deal or listen to those who think you should do something or have a certain skill because you are male.
I generally agree with your points though it depends on who you ask. Some people really don't give a crap about masculinity or femininity. The less we care about those things the more equal society can become.
There are some pressures for women that men tend not to have. The pressure to be pure and not promiscuous, to be slim and attractive, etc. You could also reverse some of these too. Some people dislike masculinity in women.
Original post by Princepieman
Assaulted sexually.. It kind of fits in the context of rape you know.
Men getting assualted by men/women isn't because they are male, it's due to other factors. Women getting sexually assaulted is pretty squarely because of their gender.
Men getting assualted by men/women isn't because they are male, it's due to other factors. Women getting sexually assaulted is pretty squarely because of their gender.
And the numbers of sexual assault against woman is in part due to what they'll report as sexual assault. I've heard girls scream sexual assault because they were groped in a club. Now I'm by no means saying that's an acceptable thing to do, but myself and other guys I know have had that happen countless times and just brushed it off. Wouldn't dream of reporting it.
Now I don't know where such statistics come from, but I imagine reporting of such incidents from one gender but not the other must skew it a bit.
Original post by 571122
I am naturally tough and tall and I've worked years at the gym to be muscular and athletic, so I'm quite happy with myself and I feel no stress with these 'pressures'. They don't come as pressures to me because my testosterone makes me tough and male already; I have a natural drive to be tough, decision-making, striving,territorial and sex-seeking. I also have no problem with DIY, driving well, etc. It's nothing new if you ask me - it all feels quite natural.
Doesn't feel 'pressures' but felt the need to work for years at the gym to be muscular... does not compute.
Original post by epage
But you can avoid prison??? I understand that men do get raped and I support them as much as female victims but for most men rape isn't an issue (unless they're the perpetrators) for some women the threat of rape follows them around all the time. We are told not to walk home at night, not to get too drunk, not to get in unlicensed cabs, etc etc.
Yes, but I think men have to put up with a lot more abuse in general terms - more violence perpetrated against them and more general abuse. In general, women will be protected and they can get away with a lot more in certain respects.
It still isn't safe for men to walk alone or get too drunk, as they could be mugged or beaten up.
Original post by redbronze1
With all due respect, it's a misconception that girls are at a higher risk of assaults.
Overall, it's actually the other way around. According to this global study, 80% of homicide victims are men - https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/GSH2013/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf
Of course, women are more likely to suffer from intimate partner homicide and such, but overall, men tend to be victims of violence way more often.
Overall, it's actually the other way around. According to this global study, 80% of homicide victims are men - https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/GSH2013/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf
Of course, women are more likely to suffer from intimate partner homicide and such, but overall, men tend to be victims of violence way more often.
I honestly believe that women abuse men physically in relations a lot more often than we believe. It is hard for a woman to come forward, but practically impossible for a man. I know a few men who were physically abused in a relationship and it was just kind of accepted behaviour. The women didn't believe they were in the wrong and nothing was ever reported.
Original post by the bear
there are plenty of short successful men...
Bernie Ecclestone
Adolf Hitler
Ronnie Corbett*
Bernie Ecclestone
Adolf Hitler
Ronnie Corbett*
Napoleon...
So if I'm real lucky one day I'll be as great as Hitler or Napoleon great !
Original post by Pulse.
tfw your arms are >30cm
tfw your arms are >40cm
I don't feel ashamed or emasculated for not being into DIY. Don't get me wrong, I can do it when I can be bothered and I've done some cracking jobs, but when faced with the sort of "You're a man, why aren't you getting your hands dirty?" sort of attitude my typical response is to laugh and say something along the lines of "I don't mess around with all that bollox, that's the sort of s*** I'd normally pay someone else to do!". I take pride in the fact that my skills extend far beyond manual labour and DIY.
Re: your parking - anyone who laughs at you is a hypocrite. Everyone was pretty crap at parking when they first passed, instructors teach you how to park to pass a test rather than teach you how to handle any type of park. You get better at it the more you do it.
Re: your parking - anyone who laughs at you is a hypocrite. Everyone was pretty crap at parking when they first passed, instructors teach you how to park to pass a test rather than teach you how to handle any type of park. You get better at it the more you do it.
Original post by the bear
there are plenty of short successful men...
Bernie Ecclestone
Adolf Hitler
Ronnie Corbett*
Bernie Ecclestone
Adolf Hitler
Ronnie Corbett*
Please don't do that. There's nothing wrong with being short.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Princepieman
Assaulted sexually.. It kind of fits in the context of rape you know.
Men getting assualted by men/women isn't because they are male, it's due to other factors. Women getting sexually assaulted is pretty squarely because of their gender.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Men getting assualted by men/women isn't because they are male, it's due to other factors. Women getting sexually assaulted is pretty squarely because of their gender.
Posted from TSR Mobile
It's not quite that way. Women are sexually assaulted because they're likely to be intimidated and unable to fight back, and sexually assaulted because they happen to have a vagina. Sexual assault isn't, so far as I can tell, usually a "hate crime against women" in the same way it would be if a gang of whites beat up a black guy. It's simply the form aggression and intimidation takes if a woman is the target.
When men get assaulted by men out of the blue (as opposed to in response to some slight), it's for the same reason: the assailant thinks the target is weak and timid looking enough that they will be intimidated and pose no danger. But men don't have anything heterosexual men are interested in sexually, so the assault doesn't go sexual.
The main other reason men assault other men, as I say, is in response to some slight. This can be done in pure anger but is also often quite a ritualised behaviour. The reason for it is because the man has to protect his honour, that is, his good standing and position in the social order has been challenged. That's why women are exempt from this: not only is it considered beyond the pale ever to hit a woman, an insult from a woman cannot be a challenge to the man's social position. So this is a gendered behaviour.
I'm a female and I AGREE SO MUCH with this statement! It's so true! And this is what I always try to raise awareness, especially when I used to attend our school's feminist society. The head of the society actually said "I think men experience sexism and are subjects to societal pressures but it's something they've put upon themselves". I was like WTF??? Let's just say, since then, I haven't gone back.
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