Will we ever be able to abolish prisons?

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Iridocyclitis
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I know there are people who seek this, but what is the realistic alternative, especially for offenders who are dangerous or at risk of causing others to commit crimes?

Say you have a dangerous murderer who is convicted of multiple murders. They are not mentally ill. What alternative is there but prison to protect the public?

Also how would you distinguish punishments for the most serious crimes if you could be fined both for shoplifting and for murder?
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Arianax
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Bring back the death penalty.
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calling03
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(Original post by Ishax)
Bring back the death penalty.
For all crimes?
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Arianax
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(Original post by calling03)
For all crimes?
Oh, nope. I was referring to murders, rapists, paedophile, domestic violence, acid attacks, any type of abuse and anything else I've missed out.

I don't think you should get the death penalty for burglary and minor crimes.
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Dheorl
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Oh god, not this again. Yet another thread that's going to likely degenerate into a moronic debate about the death penalty.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by Iridocyclitis)
I know there are people who seek this, but what is the realistic alternative, especially for offenders who are dangerous or at risk of causing others to commit crimes?
Who seeks to abolish prisons?

(Original post by Iridocyclitis)
Say you have a dangerous murderer who is convicted of multiple murders. They are not mentally ill. What alternative is there but prison to protect the public?

Also how would you distinguish punishments for the most serious crimes if you could be fined both for shoplifting and for murder?
Well you can go to prison for theft and murder, the distinction is made in sentencing so the same principle would apply here. Who has ever suggested fines for all crimes? It certainly won't have been anyone who's even fairly well read on the topic of criminal justice.


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caravaggio2
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(Original post by Underscore__)
Who seeks to abolish prisons?



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Well the justice taskforce and about 99% of active feminists think women's prisons should be abolished for a start.
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Underscore__
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(Original post by caravaggio2)
Well the justice taskforce and about 99% of active feminists think women's prisons should be abolished for a start.
They simply argue that their are more appropriate sentences for non-violent offenders (something that academics seem to universally agree on) and most women are non-violent offenders. Feminists don't count, they're usually not educated on what they speak about and are blinded by the smoke from their burning bras usually


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Politricks
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(Original post by Ishax)
Bring back the death penalty.
Except there is the risk that an innocent person will be executed, so no.
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Rakas21
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Personally i would reduce the prison population by changing sentencing laws such that those who commit non-violent crimes (fraudsters, drug growers ect..) would get large fines and community service. The people who would go to prison are the murderers, rapists, those who commit assault.
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BIGJohnson777
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(Original post by Ishax)
Oh, nope. I was referring to murders, rapists, paedophile, domestic violence, acid attacks, any type of abuse and anything else I've missed out.

I don't think you should get the death penalty for burglary and minor crimes.
How come abuse be worse than a burglary?
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BIGJohnson777
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(Original post by Iridocyclitis)
I know there are people who seek this, but what is the realistic alternative, especially for offenders who are dangerous or at risk of causing others to commit crimes?

Say you have a dangerous murderer who is convicted of multiple murders. They are not mentally ill. What alternative is there but prison to protect the public?

Also how would you distinguish punishments for the most serious crimes if you could be fined both for shoplifting and for murder?
I'd say we need forced labour camps, so that it isn't just the taxpayers who pay for their incarceration. This is for all crimes whereby a custodial sentence can be imposed.
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BIGJohnson777
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(Original post by Politricks)
Except there is the risk that an innocent person will be executed, so no.
The argument is just plain stupid. Even now we may have innocent people sentenced to life whose appeals didn't go through.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by Ishax)
Oh, nope. I was referring to murders, rapists, paedophile, domestic violence, acid attacks, any type of abuse and anything else I've missed out.

I don't think you should get the death penalty for burglary and minor crimes.
You think someone involved in domestic violence should be subject to the death penalty?

And you can see the obvious flaw with capital punishment for rape? You'd essentially be inventing a state-funded assassination service.
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BIGJohnson777
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(Original post by Trinculo)
You think someone involved in domestic violence should be subject to the death penalty?

And you can see the obvious flaw with the capital punishment for rape? You'd essentially be inventing a state-funded assassination service.
Agree, all the aforementioned crimes aren't more serious than s18 GBH and death penalty would be disproportionate. Unless it is for repeat offenders who already wasted plenty of government's money on court proceedings etc.
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Trinculo
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(Original post by BIGJohnson777)
Agree, all the aforementioned crimes aren't more serious than s18 GBH and death penalty would be disproportionate. Unless it is for repeat offenders who already wasted plenty of government's money on court proceedings etc.
All the evidence from the States is that the death penalty is far more expensive than imprisonment - mainly due to the cost of the appeals processes.
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nulli tertius
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It is all very well talking about murder but what sentence other than imprisonment can you impose on this man?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...d-made-8401523

It isn't going to reform him or deter him, but it is just going to stop the crime wave for about 10 months
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Underscore__
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
It is all very well talking about murder but what sentence other than imprisonment can you impose on this man?


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...d-made-8401523

It isn't going to reform him or deter him, but it is just going to stop the crime wave for about 10 months
So what do propose?

(Original post by BIGJohnson777)
The argument is just plain stupid. Even now we may have innocent people sentenced to life whose appeals didn't go through.
Except most people sentenced to life are released and there's always the potential to go back on the verdict.


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Rakas21
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
It is all very well talking about murder but what sentence other than imprisonment can you impose on this man?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...d-made-8401523

It isn't going to reform him or deter him, but it is just going to stop the crime wave for about 10 months
I must admit that he'd be a grey area in my idea and for that reason we'd probably have to keep a second class of prison for persistent minor offenders. The fact that he's actually being permitted to walk free while comitting 300 offenses shows how broken the current sentencing system is though.

(Original post by BIGJohnson777)
I'd say we need forced labour camps, so that it isn't just the taxpayers who pay for their incarceration. This is for all crimes whereby a custodial sentence can be imposed.
Forced labour camps are going too far however i have wondered if we could not create prisons on some of the islands off the west coast of Scotland to remove the threat to the bulk of the nation.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Iridocyclitis)
I know there are people who seek this, but what is the realistic alternative, especially for offenders who are dangerous or at risk of causing others to commit crimes?

Say you have a dangerous murderer who is convicted of multiple murders. They are not mentally ill. What alternative is there but prison to protect the public?

Also how would you distinguish punishments for the most serious crimes if you could be fined both for shoplifting and for murder?
Who are these people?

The answer is no imo as there will always be dysfunctional people who will be a danger to the rest. There will always be people who seriously break rules such as murderers.
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