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Maths C3 - Trigonometry... Help??

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Original post by RDKGames
The maximum value of sin(ax+b)\sin(ax+b) and cos(ax+b)a,bR\cos(ax+b) \forall a,b\in\mathbb{R} is 1 so when you have your equation in the R-alpha form, you can assume that the trigonometric function is 1 when finding the maximum.

As for the last bit, it's just the case of solving the trig equation and considering the smallest angle which will give the maximum.


Oh dear, I don't think I fully understand that first sentence :colondollar::ashamed2: I've never seen the symbol..\forall...before.

I can understand the bit where you say the maximum for sin(ax+b)\sin(ax+b) and cos(ax+b)\cos(ax+b) is 1 but I thought since I have to work out the smallest positive value of θ\theta from the equation 13cos(θ22.6) 13cos(\theta - 22.6) I wasn't sure how to go about doing so :/
Original post by Philip-flop
Oh dear, I don't think I fully understand that first sentence :colondollar::ashamed2: I've never seen the symbol..\forall...before.

I can understand the bit where you say the maximum for sin(ax+b)\sin(ax+b) and cos(ax+b)\cos(ax+b) is 1 but I thought since I have to work out the smallest positive value of θ\theta from the equation 13cos(θ22.6) 13cos(\theta - 22.6) I wasn't sure how to go about doing so :/


Don't pay too much attention to the notation I used there - you don't need to be aware it. It simply means that the statement is true for any arbitrary values of a and b that you pick as long as they stay within the real numbers.

There's an infinite amount of solutions so you are simply looking for the smallest possible angle that will give the maximum, and we know that the maximum is given when the trig function is equal to 1, thus it's just the matter of solving a trig equation.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by RDKGames
Don't pay too much attention to the notation I used there - you don't need to be aware it. It simply means that the statement is true for any arbitrary values of a and b that you pick as long as they stay within the real numbers.

There's an infinite amount of solutions so you are simply looking for the smallest possible angle that will give the maximum, and we know that the maximum is given when the trig function is equal to 1, thus it's just the matter of solving a trig equation.


Oh right so I would do... 13cos(θ22.6)=1 13cos (\theta-22.6) = 1 ... and go from there?

I'm still feeling like my knowledge isn't quite there :frown:
Original post by Philip-flop
Oh right so I would do... 13cos(θ22.6)=1 13cos (\theta-22.6) = 1 ... and go from there?


No you would do cos(θ22.6)=1\cos(\theta - 22.6)=1 because you want the cosine function to be maximised which in turn maximises f(θ)=13cos(θ22.6)f(\theta)=13\cos(\theta - 22.6)
Original post by RDKGames
No you would do cos(θ22.6)=1\cos(\theta - 22.6)=1 because you want the cosine function to be maximised which in turn maximises f(θ)=13cos(θ22.6)f(\theta)=13\cos(\theta - 22.6)


Oh yeah I'm starting to understand now. It's because the angle θ\theta would give a maximum at the same point along the x-axis for both of the equations.. cos(θ22.6)\cos(\theta - 22.6) and 13cos(θ22.6)13\cos(\theta - 22.6)

It's almost like saying, because the maximum for...
13cos(θ22.6)13\cos(\theta - 22.6)... is 13

Then...
13cos(θ22.6)=1313\cos(\theta - 22.6)=13

cos(θ22.6)=1313\cos(\theta - 22.6)=\frac{13}{13}

cos(θ22.6)=1\cos(\theta - 22.6)=1

So... θ=22.6,382.6,\theta = 22.6, 382.6, and so on (including minus figures)...

But since we want the smallest positive angle of θ\theta then the answer would be...

θ=22.6 \theta = 22.6
Original post by Philip-flop
Oh yeah I'm starting to understand now. It's because the angle θ\theta would give a maximum at the same point along the x-axis for both of the equations.. cos(θ22.6)\cos(\theta - 22.6) and 13cos(θ22.6)13\cos(\theta - 22.6)

It's almost like saying, because the maximum for...
13cos(θ22.6)13\cos(\theta - 22.6)... is 13

Then...
13cos(θ22.6)=1313\cos(\theta - 22.6)=13

cos(θ22.6)=1313\cos(\theta - 22.6)=\frac{13}{13}

cos(θ22.6)=1\cos(\theta - 22.6)=1

So... θ=22.6,382.6,\theta = 22.6, 382.6, and so on (including minus figures)...

But since we want the smallest positive angle of θ\theta then the answer would be...

θ=22.6 \theta = 22.6


Exactly this. :smile:
Original post by RDKGames
Exactly this. :smile:


Thank you so much @RDKGames you always manage to help me clear up my moments of confusion!! :smile:
Original post by Philip-flop
Thank you so much @RDKGames you always manage to help me clear up my moments of confusion!! :smile:


Glad to help :h:
I'm not quite sure how to answer part (d) of this question...
C3 - EXE7D Q15.png
Can someone explain this to me. I'm not even sure I understand the question properly :frown:
Original post by Philip-flop
I'm not quite sure how to answer part (d) of this question...
C3 - EXE7D Q15.png
Can someone explain this to me. I'm not even sure I understand the question properly :frown:


The thing about squaring both sides of an equation is that it gives extra solutions. Consider the equation x=2 x=2 . Squaring gives x2=4 x^2=4 and so we conclude that x=±2 x=\pm 2 ? No. Squaring has introduced a new solution.
Original post by B_9710
The thing about squaring both sides of an equation is that it gives extra solutions. Consider the equation x=2 x=2 . Squaring gives x2=4 x^2=4 and so we conclude that x=±2 x=\pm 2 ? No. Squaring has introduced a new solution.


Oh yeah! Of course!! Thank you so much :smile:
Can someone please explain the second to last line? :/
Why does... A=(P+Q)/2 and B=(P-Q)/2 ?? :frown:
C3 EXA 20.png
Original post by Philip-flop
Can someone please explain the second to last line? :/
Why does... A=(P+Q)/2 and B=(P-Q)/2 ?? :frown:
C3 EXA 20.png


From A+B=PA+B = P and AB=QA-B =Q we can add the two equations to get (A+B)+(AB)=P+Q    2A=P+Q    A=P+Q2(A+B) + (A-B) = P + Q \iff 2A = P + Q \iff A = \frac{P+Q}{2}, we subtract the two to find B.
Reply 393
[QUOTE="Philip-flop;67480990"]So I've decided to make a thread for when I'm working through Chapter 6: Trigonometry of the Edexcel C3 Modular Maths Textbook so I can keep posting questions I need help on here instead of posting a new thread every time. I'm self-taught Maths so you will need to be patient!

My first problem I have encountered whilst eating lunch is this...


Q) Work out the exact values (in surd form) of sec(210)

The textbook shows in the example that a Quadrant/Cast Diagram has been used, but is different to the way I've learnt/used it for C2. I thought... secθ=1cosθ\sec \theta = \frac{1}{\cos \theta} which means since cos is used it should appear in the 4th quadrant of the diagram? I'm so confused as to why it's been used this way :frown:

C3 Chapt.6 EXA2 Q(a).png[/QUOTE

I was also in the same position last year when I did my A-Levels. I used to use the website TutorRoom.co.uk (not sure if there is any relation to StudentRoom :/). The tutors on there would literally answer within 10-15 minutes and walk me through each question step-by-step. Only downside is that I had to beg my parents to pay for it. But the cost is actually less than some people pay for an hour of private tutoring and I could ask as many questions as I wanted, whenever I wanted. Totally recommend if you are self-studying like I was (or if you are struggling with Maths in general).
Original post by MV2105

I was also in the same position last year when I did my A-Levels. I used to use the website TutorRoom.co.uk (not sure if there is any relation to StudentRoom :/). The tutors on there would literally answer within 10-15 minutes and walk me through each question step-by-step. Only downside is that I had to beg my parents to pay for it. But the cost is actually less than some people pay for an hour of private tutoring and I could ask as many questions as I wanted, whenever I wanted. Totally recommend if you are self-studying like I was (or if you are struggling with Maths in general).

This website only has 112 students and can't be found by a google search so I'm assuming it's just started.

Did you actually use this website when doing your A Levels or are you advertising a new website?
Original post by Zacken
From A+B=PA+B = P and AB=QA-B =Q we can add the two equations to get (A+B)+(AB)=P+Q    2A=P+Q    A=P+Q2(A+B) + (A-B) = P + Q \iff 2A = P + Q \iff A = \frac{P+Q}{2}, we subtract the two to find B.

Thank you Zacken!! With your help I've managed to get to the end of this exampole, but I'm still having trouble realising why :frown:

The things I'm still confused about...

1.

I could see that the RHS of sin(P)+sin(Q)=2sin(P+Q2)cos(PQ2)sin(P) + sin (Q) = 2sin(\frac{P+Q}{2})cos(\frac{P-Q}{2}) is in the form 2sinAcosB 2sin A cos B but I never would have known to "add the two identities together" aka. sin(A+B)+sin(AB)sin(A+B)+sin(A-B).

2.

I wouldn't have known how/why to work out A and B.


Any wise words to help clear this up? :frown:

Also... are we expected to remember these identities off-by-heart?...
C3 - 7.5.png
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by MV2105

I was also in the same position last year when I did my A-Levels. I used to use the website TutorRoom.co.uk (not sure if there is any relation to StudentRoom :/). The tutors on there would literally answer within 10-15 minutes and walk me through each question step-by-step. Only downside is that I had to beg my parents to pay for it. But the cost is actually less than some people pay for an hour of private tutoring and I could ask as many questions as I wanted, whenever I wanted. Totally recommend if you are self-studying like I was (or if you are struggling with Maths in general).

Thank you, I will definitely check that website out at some point!! :smile: Can I ask what you grade you got for A-level Maths?
Original post by Philip-flop
Thank you Zacken!! With your help I've managed to get to the end of this exampole, but I'm still having trouble realising why :frown:

The things I'm still confused about...

1.

I could see that the RHS of sin(P)+sin(Q)=2sin(P+Q2)cos(PQ2)sin(P) + sin (Q) = 2sin(\frac{P+Q}{2})cos(\frac{P-Q}{2}) is in the form 2sinAcosB 2sin A cos B but I never would have known to "add the two identities together" aka. sin(A+B)+sin(AB)sin(A+B)+sin(A-B).

2.

I wouldn't have known how/why to work out A and B.


Any wise words to help clear this up? :frown:

Also... are we expected to remember these identities off-by-heart?...

These identities are on the formula book. Even though this is Example 20, it's really just a proof of these identities.

Like any proof, it's useful to learn and understand it. You could be asked to prove it in the exam.

"I would never have known..." : That's fine since this is an individual proof and it isn't a technique that comes up in a variety of questions.
Original post by notnek
These identities are on the formula book. Even though this is Example 20, it's really just a proof of these identities.

Like any proof, it's useful to learn and understand it. You could be asked to prove it in the exam.

"I would never have known..." : That's fine since this is an individual proof and it isn't a technique that comes up in a variety of questions.

Thank you!! I'm glad they'll be in the formula book for the exam as they are quite lengthy to derive from addition formula. I will just try to learn/remember how to prove these identities. :smile:
Anyone have any tips for learning factor formulae?

Or should I just vaguely remember that for example...
sin(P)+sin(Q)2sin(P+Q2)cos(PQ2) sin(P)+sin(Q) \equiv 2sin(\frac{P+Q}{2})cos(\frac{P-Q}{2})

and that... P=A+B,Q=AB,A=P+Q2,B=PQ2 P=A+B, Q=A-B, A=\frac{P+Q}{2}, B=\frac{P-Q}{2} ... can be substituted in?

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