Grammar schools to return

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    Continuation of previous thread.

    Now grammar schools are going to return do you think this is good or bad and why?
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    The comprehensive system is only good depending on the area you live. For example my first comp, was amazing, really good, really pushed students and supported students of all levels, ignoring english I was a straight A student and many of the lower sets still had those with A grade potential.

    My second comprehensive by comparison was exactly what was wrong with the system. Arguably over crowded, all but the brightest students ignored, lack of discipline and a school population that was too large for the school to manage effectively. Because I was a transfer student outside of the feeder schools (you joined this school in year 10), they couldn't figure out how to get hold of my previous grades... and then presumed I was below average in all subjects :facepalm: after 6 months we managed to sort the mess out but the damage was done, half my exams were capped at C's. I couldn't pursue a career in computing or software because by IT was capped at a D, but because of my overall grades I couldn't get a free resit at college!
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    Grammars have too many downsides and the transition period to grammars would be horrendous.

    In my area there is a comp with really good academic results and people pay over the odds to buy a house in the catchment area meaning most of the students are middle class.

    If new a grammar school was established in a nearby area, it would pull all the well performing students from that school and the house prices in the catchment area of the comp would crash which means very few parents would want a new grammar in that area.

    But if that comp was converted to a grammar, it would make little difference as it already has the sort of students that could pass the test to go to a grammar and very few poor students could afford to live in the catchment area anyway.
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    Grammar schools allow for movement between classes as they are the schools which get the most students to high tier universities. People who complain say that tutoring is required to get in to a grammar school; however most people at my grammar didn't have tutoring and are just smart as even those with tutoring who took the test with me in Year 6 failed despite coming from the strongest primary school in the area.

    Grammar schools are truly meritocratic as people come from as far as Fulham to Croydon to experience better education. It isn't reliant on whether your parents have enough to put you through tutoring or if they can buy a house in a nice area to be in the catchment. It truly the fairest system as it measures academic ability and those who dislike the system obviously struggled with basic academia as getting into a decent grammar school isn't hard as long as you're somewhat competent.

    However, I've grown up in an year hailed to be one of the best in the country in terms of secondary schools and even the lesser schools around me aren't that bad so my opinion is probably misaligned with the rest of the country.
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    (Original post by LeenFreestyle)
    Grammar schools allow for movement between classes as they are the schools which get the most students to high tier universities. People who complain say that tutoring is required to get in to a grammar school; however most people at my grammar didn't have tutoring and are just smart as even those with tutoring who took the test with me in Year 6 failed despite coming from the strongest primary school in the area.

    Grammar schools are truly meritocratic as people come from as far as Fulham to Croydon to experience better education. It isn't reliant on whether your parents have enough to put you through tutoring or if they can buy a house in a nice area to be in the catchment. It truly the fairest system as it measures academic ability and those who dislike the system obviously struggled with basic academia as getting into a decent grammar school isn't hard as long as you're somewhat competent.

    However, I've grown up in an year hailed to be one of the best in the country in terms of secondary schools and even the lesser schools around me aren't that bad so my opinion is probably misaligned with the rest of the country.
    Please explain to me how you afford to travel from Fulham to Croydon if your parents are on Jobseekers' Allowance?

    How does a 10 year old whose parents do not care a bowel movement about education apply to go to your school?
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    Yay, the 11+ bull***t returns!
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Please explain to me how you afford to travel from Fulham to Croydon if your parents are on Jobseekers' Allowance?

    How does a 10 year old whose parents do not care a bowel movement about education apply to go to your school?
    I don't make that commute; a friend who goes to the school does. I believe using a rail pass it's not that expensive but let's be honest, would a child whose parents are on Jobseekers be smart enough to get into a grammar school. He's not the richest guy and he lives in a flat so it's obviously possible.

    Part of education is the involvement of your parents; it's not really the state's job to make sure your child has a bright future that's just an unrealistic desire that socialists think makes sense when it obviously doesn't. Not every child is able to get into a grammar school even with great parents and tutoring and it's unfortunate but the reality is that if your parents don't care and you don't have a teacher that cares enough then you're unlikely to get into a selective school.

    With the new wave of grammar schools, I read that there are rules that make sure that disadvantaged students are given places to the grammar schools.

    My school was founded about 400 years ago on the principle of giving education to poor smart boys and I believe that more children should be given the privilege that I have had to succeed if they are smart enough to get into my school.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    Yay, the 11+ bull***t returns!
    11+ is mediocre and isn't hard to do well in so any truly bright pupil would excel in it.
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    (Original post by LeenFreestyle)
    11+ is mediocre and isn't hard to do well in so any truly bright pupil would excel in it.
    Oh right, I assume you took it then. Plus, that wasn't the point I was making anyway.
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    (Original post by Nirvana1989-1994)
    Oh right, I assume you took it then. Plus, that wasn't the point I was making anyway.
    Yes, the 11+ was so mediocre the school district had to add a 2nd eligibility test to actually make sure that the most capable students would go to the best grammars instead of people fluking the paper and managing to get in.
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    If they can get it through Parliament.
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    (Original post by LeenFreestyle)
    Yes, the 11+ was so mediocre the school district had to add a 2nd eligibility test to actually make sure that the most capable students would go to the best grammars instead of people fluking the paper and managing to get in.
    Okay, but again that wasn't the point I was making. I was on about the class argument.
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    In a grammar school the students are all treated and pushed to their best, in a comprehensive school the best students are often picked out and favourited by teachers leaving normal students to be left behind which in there eyes is fine so long as they all come out with C's, but what if they're capable of more? We'll never know becuase at the moment the comprehensive school system doesn't allow most students to be pushed to their best. I can't tell you how much I regret being held back at GCSEs even at AS level, thankfully I realised I'd have to take control and do my own stuff if I wanted to get good grades. Wish I'd did that at GCSEs rather than only doing what I was told and was handed to do (which wasn't much). its something that happens in all schools but in grammar schools you really are pushed out to your max
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    Terrible idea. The surprise Brexit outcome was a result of longstanding class and generational conflict in our society, and now the reintroduction of grammar schools will reinforce this. The real world does not contain safe spaces for your precious 'gifted' children so they will have to learn how to interact with a wide range of people at some point, and better sooner rather than later.

    What they should do is provide the best teachers and streaming in non-academy comprehensives with one national exam board, and fund this program with monetary resources taken from private and religious schools.
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    [QUOTE=LeenFreestyle;67497644]I don't make that commute; a friend who goes to the school does. I believe using a rail pass it's not that expensive but let's be honest, would a child whose parents are on Jobseekers be smart enough to get into a grammar school. He's not the richest guy and he lives in a flat so it's obviously possible. [QUOTE]

    (a) how patronising (b) yes they did in the golden age of grammar schools which were designed to take the top 20-25% of the entire ability range and (c) if you are selecting on intelligence and not preparation or the shiniest shoes, there shouldn't be a problem here.

    Part of education is the involvement of your parents; it's not really the state's job to make sure your child has a bright future that's just an unrealistic desire that socialists think makes sense when it obviously doesn't. Not every child is able to get into a grammar school even with great parents and tutoring and it's unfortunate but the reality is that if your parents don't care and you don't have a teacher that cares enough then you're unlikely to get into a selective school.
    No, that isn't good enough, not if you are wanting my money as a taxpayer. You can make a case why I should be subsiding the brightest and best children. You can't make a case why I should be subsidising the parents with the sharpest elbows.



    With the new wave of grammar schools, I read that there are rules that make sure that disadvantaged students are given places to the grammar schools.

    My school was founded about 400 years ago on the principle of giving education to poor smart boys and I believe that more children should be given the privilege that I have had to succeed if they are smart enough to get into my school.
    And you will find that most of the non-socialist objections come from people who fear, whatever the intentions, it will turn into a middle class racket at the expense of the taxpayer.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Grammars have too many downsides and the transition period to grammars would be horrendous.

    In my area there is a comp with really good academic results and people pay over the odds to buy a house in the catchment area meaning most of the students are middle class.

    If new a grammar school was established in a nearby area, it would pull all the well performing students from that school and the house prices in the catchment area of the comp would crash which means very few parents would want a new grammar in that area.

    But if that comp was converted to a grammar, it would make little difference as it already has the sort of students that could pass the test to go to a grammar and very few poor students could afford to live in the catchment area anyway.
    The difference it would make is that high IQ wealthy parents could have their high IQ children somewhere else that is cheaper and still get to send their children to the school for high IQ kids.

    More money could be spent on raising children rather than on buying land.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    (a) how patronising
    Statistics don't lie; children from poorer backgrounds are hail from parents who aren't as smart and the child is less likely to be smart considering that intelligence hails from both nature and nurture.

    As a response to your post as a whole; you seem to think that bright students from poor families have no chance of getting into a decent grammar, however unless you provide some sort of evidence to further that claim then all I can do is disagree with that idea. Rich people would choose private schools, and the grammar exists so the common man can give their child a decent education considering this nations attitude towards education in which a B is seen as a successful grade.

    You don't have this problem in Japan or Korea in which all the good middle and high schools have entrance exams because the culture realises that hard work pays and everyone is encouraged to work hard. Whereas here we just accept C's as a pass somehow when it's hard to get less than a C.

    You have this delusion where everyone should have the same education as if that's better. That doesn't help anything, potentially grammar tier students would go to trash comprehensive schools where they don't get pushed at all and they fail. Those same students who wouldn't be in a grammar won't be pushed anyway.

    I'd rather give my money to students that I know will be pushed and will achieve greater things.

    inb4 every student should be pushed amirite haha
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    (Original post by Orbital_Rising)
    Terrible idea. The surprise Brexit outcome was a result of longstanding class and generational conflict in our society, and now the reintroduction of grammar schools will reinforce this. The real world does not contain safe spaces for your precious 'gifted' children so they will have to learn how to interact with a wide range of people at some point, and better sooner rather than later.

    What they should do is provide the best teachers and streaming in non-academy comprehensives with one national exam board, and fund this program with monetary resources taken from private and religious schools.
    Commie icon to boot; I can't even tell if this is a bait post or not.

    Maybe when the country as a whole starts to care about education and we see a paradigm shift where everyone pushes their children to do well in exams then all schools will do well, until then I'll enjoy my grammar school and my good grades.
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    (Original post by Orbital_Rising)
    The real world does not contain safe spaces for your precious 'gifted' children so they will have to learn how to interact with a wide range of people at some point, and better sooner rather than later.
    It very much does. The real world is horrifyingly segregated.

    Which is a good thing.
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    (Original post by LeenFreestyle)
    Commie icon to boot; I can't even tell if this is a bait post or not.

    Maybe when the country as a whole starts to care about education and we see a paradigm shift where everyone pushes their children to do well in exams then all schools will do well, until then I'll enjoy my grammar school and my good grades.
    Enjoy your time while it lasts.
 
 
 
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