The Student Room Group

Criticism of Islam is not a hate crime, nor racist, nor enophobic

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Original post by QE2
Both the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury have expressed the church's acceptance of homosexuality. The LRA is not a single-issue organisation. Their leadership has stated that they are fighting to re-establish multi-party democracy in Uganda. I'm surprised that you didn't bring up the KKK.

I was very clear. Anyone who merely has a cultural affiliation with Islam is not an Islamist. However, if you make specific claims about the Quran and Muhammad, then the onus is on you to know WTF you are talking about, because such statements give tacit support to those who have read it all and still make those claims. It's not like the full story is some kind of well-kept secret!


That's irrelevant. The fact remains that Christianity is being used as a justification to mistreat LGBT people in multiple non-Western countries. Western-backed figureheads like the Pope aren't going to do a thing to change that. And what's happening to LGBT people in Uganda is state-sponsored, it's not just the work of a terrorist organisation like the LRA. An overwhelming majority of the Christian population there think that homosexuality is unacceptable as well. Why? Because their god said so.

If the person is claims to be a scholar and knowledgeable of Islam then yes. The average Western Muslim who just goes to the mosque every now and then and hears sugar-coated BS about their prophet, then comes out thinking that he is the best person who ever lived should not be expected to have the same level of knowledge. Most religious people do not.

I already pointed out the many things that are wrong with Murray's statement so will leave it at that.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Aniki_
I think Islam is incompatible with our western ideology and lifestyle. Saying this on twitter can get me arrested in some European countries.


if you think that, you need to open your eyes to the millions of perfectly normal, peaceful Muslims living within our society today, and stop believing everything breitbart/ the daily express says.
Reply 102
Original post by alevelstresss
if you think that, you need to open your eyes to the millions of perfectly normal, peaceful Muslims living within our society today, and stop believing everything breitbart/ the daily express says.
But we have already established that the majority of Muslims do not follow Islam, but rather a sanitised and cherry-picked revisionism. Therefore the behaviour of most Muslims is irrelevant to a discussion about Islam.
Original post by QE2
the behaviour of most Muslims is irrelevant to a discussion about Islam.
as I see it: the problem is, there is not one "true" Islam

there are many Islams, and all of them are more or less equally "true", or also equally "false"
Original post by Aniki_
I think Islam is incompatible with our western ideology and lifestyle
this is true, if you take the literal interpretation of the holy texts and the main Islamic experiences in history

but, of course, there are "creative", "modern", "revisionist", "moderate" etc interpretations : all of them, just as "true" or just as "false" as the original ones
Original post by AmazingArry


So even though the rest of society adapts to new issues, Islam will not and cannot change and that is the problem.
personally, I think that Islam will change : but it will take a long, long time
Reply 106
Original post by mariachi
personally, I think that Islam will change : but it will take a long, long time


Islam is currently changing, but not in the good way.
Original post by Josb
Islam is currently changing, but not in the good way.
there are many variables at play : world economy, migration flows, wars in the Middle East etc
While I agree that debate should not be shut down to conform to political correctness, I have a serious problem with criticizing Islam as a coherent and monolithic ideology. It isn't, but when one does so, it can be a dogwhistle call to racism and bigotry - just look at what Trump is saying.
Original post by alevelstresss
He lived in a very different society to our own, long ago. Traditions were different back then, and they still are now. Its not a valid criticism to whinge about Mohammed being a pedophile when practically the whole world was more positively predisposed to that sort of stuff.


But Mo was Mo, the prophet. His actions are what Muslims base their life on. I mean what you are saying here is that Mo is not a good role model (because he lived at a different time). Try going to a Muslim country and start telling people Mo is not a good role model.

And rather sad that you can't simply say "yes, he was a pedophile". Admitting something is not a sign of weakness, but strength.
Original post by alevelstresss
My prophet is Richard P Feynman, not sure why you think he's a lunatic.

And bare in mind that in non-democratic, non-western societies, 1500 years ago, its open to interpretation whether or not that is 'disgusting'. Should I bring up the dozens of cases of Christian pedophilia in the last 5 years? Or is that justified because its a non-foreign religion?


Your prophet is Feynman? Not only is that weird, but an insult to his memory.

And the last part just demonstrates your complete lack of understanding and thinking. No, that is not justified and no one here criticizing Islam said it is.

You would do much better promoting your agenda if you stopped your one-sided bias tirade.

You are even contradicting yourself. On one hand you argue that we can't lump all Muslims together because most choose to see the good parts in their ideology. On the other hand, you can't even admit Mo was a pedo.
Original post by alevelstresss
I'd never do that first, if I call someone an idiot, its likely that their boring old aggressive attacks annoyed me


But judging by your posts, anyone saying anything against Islam is carrying out boring old aggressive attacks that annoy you...

I do wonder why you have this agenda of yours.
Can we not just agree that all religions are ridiculous?
I mean, how are they any different to the 'Myths' that Ancient Greeks/Egyptians etc. worshipped?
Original post by WBZ144
It goes both ways, there are people who are constantly talking about how to be "tougher" on Muslims and make their lives harder then try to disguise this as "criticism of Islam". There are also people who say that it's OK to hate Muslims on the basis of their beliefs (without knowing what beliefs each individual Muslim holds) and claim that this is not bigotry.


No, you're absolutely wrong.

Being "tougher on Muslims" is not synonymous for "criticism of Islam". The former is a group of people, the latter is an adherence. That said, being tough on Muslims - a group which still holds capricious and hateful beliefs on many social issues - is not something which can be considered Islamophobic or hate-speech.

Islamophobia means being intolerant of Muslims - as a group.
Original post by jake4198
No, you're absolutely wrong.

Being "tougher on Muslims" is not synonymous for "criticism of Islam". The former is a group of people, the latter is an adherence. That said, being tough on Muslims - a group which still holds capricious and hateful beliefs on many social issues - is not something which can be considered Islamophobic or hate-speech.

Islamophobia means being intolerant of Muslims - as a group.


You contradict yourself right there. In that case, what would count as anti-Muslim bigotry if not collective punishment?
Original post by jake4198
No, you're absolutely wrong.

Being "tougher on Muslims" is not synonymous for "criticism of Islam". The former is a group of people, the latter is an adherence. That said, being tough on Muslims - a group which still holds capricious and hateful beliefs on many social issues - is not something which can be considered Islamophobic or hate-speech.

Islamophobia means being intolerant of Muslims - as a group.


In my view, conservatives and UKIP supporters hold 'capricious and hateful beliefs on many social issues'.

But should we ignore that because they're not foreign?
Original post by alevelstresss
In my view, conservatives and UKIP supporters hold 'capricious and hateful beliefs on many social issues'.

But should we ignore that because they're not foreign?


You really think these people are being ignored? It's almost fashionable to hate these people. Nigel Farage now, after the '£350mil to NHS' more than ever.
Original post by hellobrother
You really think these people are being ignored? It's almost fashionable to hate these people. Nigel Farage now, after the '£350mil to NHS' more than ever.


It's one thing to hate them; people have the right to like and dislike whoever they want. However, no one proposing to introduce policies to be "tougher" on these groups and "crackdown" on them, that is the difference.
Original post by alevelstresss
In my view, conservatives and UKIP supporters hold 'capricious and hateful beliefs on many social issues'.

But should we ignore that because they're not foreign?


Trump supporters are probably a better example. They don't like to be generalised but love generalising others.
Original post by WBZ144
You contradict yourself right there. In that case, what would count as anti-Muslim bigotry if not collective punishment?


Anti-Muslim bigotry is known as Islamophobia, but being opposed to Islam does not make you a bigot. I don't like Islam, but that doesn't I don't tolerate it and nor does it mean that I have negative prejudicial views of Muslims as a collective people. As a group, more than half of Muslims in this country believe homosexuality should be illegal and almost 40% believe a woman should always obey their husband. This is unacceptable - and this is what is meant by being tougher on Islam, especially in terms of social cohesion and assimilation.

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