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Joey_Johns
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#61
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#61
(Original post by amazingtrade)
Exactly, in my area (Withington ward) 20% of people earn above £60k a year. They are lot very rich people in the South Manchester/Cheshire and parts of Lancashire. Yet we still get less funding per head than southerners.
Perhaps gnostic could also count up the amount of halls and manor houses in the north compared to the south
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SamTheMan
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#62
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#62
(Original post by amazingtrade)
Do you support it? I am in favour of it because its about time decisions were made in the North West for the North West and not in London.
Well, I think we should talk about actual plans that have been proposed. I think John Prescott suggested devolved assemblies for pretty much all the different regions of the UK.

I'm totally against the current situation where Scotland and Wales are totally segregated while no English region has its own assembly to deal with ITS issues.
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material breach
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#63
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#63
(Original post by lala)
You're from the south then yeah?
You don't genuinely think individual MPs can really make that much difference do you? Sadly not, unless they have a ministerial role which obv most do not. They just don't have the time or resources, and are usually simply not important enough to have requests for great change listened to. It would take a level of power vastly higher than that which backbenchers have to lessen the extreme centralisation of power in London.
Whitehall as much as Westminster is key here: whatever anyone says otherwise, many of the major decisions are taken here. Civil service power is still very much concentrated in the metropolis rather than the regions, and this DOES make a huge difference. If the mandarins had not all been living in London for all or most of their careers perhaps they would be less London-centric but this is not the case. Given that their whole lives are in one city it will obviously be harder for them to understand what life is like in rural areas, or the north, or really anywhere that's different. Yes, it would be lovely if we lived in a perfect world and it was actually possible for ordinary constituency MPs to have as much power to achieve change as you've suggested is possible, but they don't.
So on what issues exactly do you think the north is neglected? And surely if that is the problem we should be trying to redesign the controls in westminster rather than wasting money on more government
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LH
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#64
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#64
(Original post by Joey_Johns)
Perhaps gnostic could also count up the amount of halls and manor houses in the north compared to the south
Some of these are brilliant - I've visited a few recently.
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an Siarach
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#65
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(Original post by SamTheMan)
Well, I think we should talk about actual plans that have been proposed. I think John Prescott suggested devolved assemblies for pretty much all the different regions of the UK.

I'm totally against the current situation where Scotland and Wales are totally segregated while no English region has its own assembly to deal with ITS issues.
Yes the current situation is very unfair. Trust me though ,the last thing any part of England wants is a group of 2nd rate local MPs like Scotland has in its MSPs - devolution would be all well and good if the ruling body for each region was made up of its elected MPs, with westminster used only for national ministers and when a certain subject is important enough to warrant the full attendance of MPs.
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lala
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Speciez99)
So on what issues exactly do you think the north is neglected? And surely if that is the problem we should be trying to redesign the controls in westminster rather than wasting money on more government
How would you plan to redesign the controls in Westminster then? If you've got a plausible plan as to how this can be done then I'd be inclined to listen, though like I said you'd also have to factor in Whitehall too and this is all exceptionally complex (as I'm sure Tony Blair will tell you, constitutional reform is a *****). But if you or anyone else can think of not only a way in which the balance of power and degree of centralisation could be completely altered but also a way in which your idea can plausibly be implemented then I may well go along with it.

Actually I didn't mention neglect, I pointed out that the people making the decisions which will affect the north west tend to have interests that lie elsewhere, and naturally this means that they are thinking of people other than us and do not usually have experience of life in the region. To this end I myself don't think picking out specific areas of neglect is a useful approach, it is more a case of being generally passed over and so looking at the whole picture not sections of it is useful. There are others who disagree with me though, amazingtrade for example feels Manchester has been neglected for investment in transport lately, and he does have a point.
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randdom
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#67
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#67
Surely the plan to move some of the civil service jobs out to northern and midland cities will help some what with the lack of people who are making decision actually living in the north. I would like to know why many of the people on this board who are from the north and support this assembly seem to have a problem with people in the south generally. I mean what is the problem with living in the south? We are all part of the same country and the people in the south don't seem to have the same problem with people from the north and the midlands.
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AT82
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#68
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#68
(Original post by randdom)
Surely the plan to move some of the civil service jobs out to northern and midland cities will help some what with the lack of people who are making decision actually living in the north. I would like to know why many of the people on this board who are from the north and support this assembly seem to have a problem with people in the south generally. I mean what is the problem with living in the south? We are all part of the same country and the people in the south don't seem to have the same problem with people from the north and the midlands.
My problem is not with people living in the south or southerners, my problem is people in London making decisions which directly effect other cities in the country. It just seems the government only really cares about London and the rest of the country don't count.
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randdom
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#69
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(Original post by amazingtrade)
My problem is not with people living in the south or southerners, my problem is people in London making decisions which directly effect other cities in the country. It just seems the government only really cares about London and the rest of the country don't count.
I am not sure that it is entirely true, I guess I will see when I move out of London in september. There is obviously a problem with the current north south divided that has to be addressed. I just think that more than one plan should be come up with so there are more options about what can be done ranging from doing nothing to the north west assembly. I also think that it is only fair that if the north west get and assembly that every other region should get one too.
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AT82
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#70
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#70
(Original post by randdom)
I am not sure that it is entirely true, I guess I will see when I move out of London in september. There is obviously a problem with the current north south divided that has to be addressed. I just think that more than one plan should be come up with so there are more options about what can be done ranging from doing nothing to the north west assembly. I also think that it is only fair that if the north west get and assembly that every other region should get one too.
I know the North East and Yorkshire are also proposed to getting one. I am not sure why the Midlands or South West isn't.

The North South divide is why some people hate southerners though because its wrong, there is no reason it should exist, the North West ecnomeny more example is worth more than Irelands or Greeces so other parts of the country generate a lot of income for the country yet don't get the same amount of funding.

I personaly don't hate southerners as I realise the north/south divide isn't really the fault of people living down south or in London.

The BBC are moving a lot of their central decision making to Manchester to try and help address this divide, the idea is if a lot of the media is based outside London it will help matters. The government are also moving a lot of 'key workers' outside London to other regions but this is just a cost saving measure although it will help these areas (more jobs etc).
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randdom
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#71
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(Original post by amazingtrade)
I know the North East and Yorkshire are also proposed to getting one. I am not sure why the Midlands or South West isn't.

The North South divide is why some people hate southerners though because its wrong, there is no reason it should exist, the North West ecnomeny more example is worth more than Irelands or Greeces so other parts of the country generate a lot of income for the country yet don't get the same amount of funding.
Like I said I realise that there is a problem that needs addressing I just think that other options need to also be considered. What is the harm in looking at all the possible options.
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AT82
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#72
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#72
(Original post by randdom)
Like I said I realise that there is a problem that needs addressing I just think that other options need to also be considered. What is the harm in looking at all the possible options.
There is no harm but I am not sure what other options they are and they may have already been considered. The only real option is to give out of London MPs real powers.

This is slightly off topic but I hate the way minsters are giving tasks, the fact 'two jags' Presscot was transport minster was a joke. They should have people that genuinly care about the subject matter, not just assign minsters because of the old boys network.
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Chrism
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#73
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I'm against it as under the current proposals they'll be little more than talking shops, with even less powers than the laughably powerless Welsh Assembly. The costs involved in creating yet more spaces on the political gravy train are too much for the meagre influence it'll have. If you're going to create regional assemblies, then you should do it properly rather than the hatchet job which Prezza has come up with.
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AT82
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#74
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#74
(Original post by piginapoke)
Its all North-West-centric in here isn't it? No mention of the North East or Yorkshire-Humber assemblies...
I mentioned the North East one on this thread tonight I didn't realise other areas were having the same thing proposed until after I made this thread hence the North West bias. Sorry about that.
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material breach
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#75
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#75
(Original post by lala)
How would you plan to redesign the controls in Westminster then? If you've got a plausible plan as to how this can be done then I'd be inclined to listen, though like I said you'd also have to factor in Whitehall too and this is all exceptionally complex (as I'm sure Tony Blair will tell you, constitutional reform is a *****). But if you or anyone else can think of not only a way in which the balance of power and degree of centralisation could be completely altered but also a way in which your idea can plausibly be implemented then I may well go along with it.
I don't as you can imagine have any a drawn out plan in front of me. However the 2 things I would say on the subject is that I do not think that introducing a new level of government will help. Presumely it would have to pass its measure througth parliament and not be independant to make decisions or the cash its given will be decided by westminster so there problems you seem concerned about would remain.

Hence if you think there is a problem then you need to solve it at its root cause. Ensuring that the ministers have a wide range of backgrounds would reflect this. Having things like task forces/more consultation to help westminster make decisions would also help. Greater publicity of thing that the north wants done would force Westminster to act.
(Original post by lala)
Actually I didn't mention neglect, I pointed out that the people making the decisions which will affect the north west tend to have interests that lie elsewhere, and naturally this means that they are thinking of people other than us and do not usually have experience of life in the region. To this end I myself don't think picking out specific areas of neglect is a useful approach, it is more a case of being generally passed over and so looking at the whole picture not sections of it is useful. There are others who disagree with me though, amazingtrade for example feels Manchester has been neglected for investment in transport lately, and he does have a point.
On the subject of transport I do not necessarily think its only Manchester, Bristol for example has alot worse transport network and its funding has been recently been cut for a light raliway into the centre. To claim its only the north west that experiences these problems I think is untrue. Which means we need to change if there is a problem, westiminster rather than introduce another level of government which will waste more money on expensives/bulidings/personnel which is not needed.
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