The Student Room Group

Transgender People

I'm confused about a few things. Hopefully somebody can clear this up :smile:

Ok, lets say you have a boy, who thinks hes a girl...so is in effect a girl.

Now I get that....the boy identifies with himself as a girl etc, and all the frills and associated packages that come with it.

Now then, lets say this 'girl' is bi-sexual, and therefore likes girls and boys....if he likes girls, isn't he just straight? :confused:

And if he likes boys, because hes identified as a girl perhaps...then why does he like girls in the first place, because this would hinder his transgender transformation.

Now, moving onto the sex itself.... If he has sex with 'another' girl...does he erm, have straight sex or just do all the lezzer stuff? And if he has sex with a boy, is he the passive one that gets penetrated?

I'm actually geniunely confused about all this! I don't see how it works.

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Reply 1
I think gender identity is separate from sexual attraction. You could identify as female but still be sexually attracted to women. Effectively a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
Reply 2
But if you're identifying as a female, wouldnt you be identifying as all the female feeling 'norms' too.... colours, taste, sexual attraction etc.

And would you still be utilising the male 'instruments' in that attraction...i dunno, its interesting!
Psyk
I think gender identity is separate from sexual attraction.


That's a very important distinction to draw - the implications of not separating sexuality and gender include identifying all gay men as women trapped in mens' bodies and similarly all lesbian women as men trapped in womens' bodies, which simply isn't the case.
Reply 4
samba
But if you're identifying as a female, wouldnt you be identifying as all the female feeling 'norms' too.... colours, taste, sexual attraction etc.


As Chumbaniya pointed out, that would mean that lesbians don't identify as women.
Reply 5
Psyk
Gender identity is separate from sexual attraction.


Absolutely. What gender you identify as doesn't have to have anything to do with your sexual object choice.
Reply 6
Psyk
As Chumbaniya pointed out, that would mean that lesbians don't identify as women.


not really...the female 'norm' is to identify as straight, and as far as I understand, the transgender identification comes from identifying with all the female norms (being a woman in thought or whatever)
Reply 7
samba
not really...the female 'norm' is to identify as straight, and as far as I understand, the transgender identification comes from identifying with all the female norms (being a woman in thought or whatever)


So you're assuming that to identify oneself as a female is to automatically identify oneself as a heterosexual female?

I disagree.
Reply 8
crazybored
So you're assuming that to identify oneself as a female is to automatically identify oneself as a heterosexual female?

I disagree.


No, I'm assuming that would be the 'normal' [typical] identification
Reply 9
Righty ho, to clear one thing up, gender identity is a completly different thing to sexuality, although the two things are considered a scale and there for although not linked run in parallel

anyway, some trangender people don't identify a sexuality. perhaps the more simple sexuality for a trangendered person is bisexuality, because you can be either sex attracted to both sexes.

now a boy who identifys as a girl who will have sex exclusivly with girls would be classed as a lesbian, simply because the TG person in question, thinks, lives and identifies as female, and is called a she by her frends and family, despite the fact she has male sexual organs (or afte she has had sex reassignment surgery, just the XY chromasome in which you can't acually see). If the TG person in question has sex with other men, dispite the fact that the may or may not still have a penis which in biological terms would make them gay, they are not, they are considered to be straight.

I could explain for Female to Male transexuals, but the situation isstill the same only opposite.
samba
Now then, lets say this 'girl' is bi-sexual, and therefore likes girls and boys....if he likes girls, isn't he just straight? :confused:
Hence the terms "gynaephilia" and "androphilia". Not common, but they do exist.

samba
And if he likes boys, because hes identified as a girl perhaps...then why does he like girls in the first place, because this would hinder his transgender transformation.
Same argument as homosexuality. Or, at least, similar.

samba
Now, moving onto the sex itself.... If he has sex with 'another' girl...does he erm, have straight sex or just do all the lezzer stuff? And if he has sex with a boy, is he the passive one that gets penetrated?
Surely this depends entirely on the individuals, and not least whether they've pre- or post-op?

Edit: incidentally, a male-to-female transsexual would probably prefer to be called 'she', not 'he'...
generalebriety

Edit: incidentally, a male-to-female transsexual would probably prefer to be called 'she', not 'he'...

agreed
Reply 12
did anyone watch coronation street tonight?

(for those of you who didn't.. this IS relevant!)
samba
not really...the female 'norm' is to identify as straight, and as far as I understand, the transgender identification comes from identifying with all the female norms (being a woman in thought or whatever)


Whilst it's true that the female 'norm', in the sense of what it most common, is to be heterosexual, but it's obviously not true that one needs to identify with every norm of a particular gender in order to identify as that gender; I doubt there is a woman alive who perfectly fits the 'average woman', in the sense of fulfilling absolutely every trait which is most common among females.

For example, if a girl has a mind suited more to technical disciplines like science and maths (as my girlfriend has) which men are usually more suited to, does that mean she can't identify as a woman because there is one way in which she fulfills a male norm? Of course not. Gender identification is partly about fitting generally (not absolutely) within the norms of a gender, but more importantly about how a person chooses to define themselves.
pipsipops
did anyone watch coronation street tonight?

(for those of you who didn't.. this IS relevant!)

elaborate
Reply 15
samba
But if you're identifying as a female, wouldnt you be identifying as all the female feeling 'norms' too.... colours, taste, sexual attraction etc.

And would you still be utilising the male 'instruments' in that attraction...i dunno, its interesting!


... and yet you are only just scratching the surface. It doesn't start getting really confusing until you consider what labels to use for a platonic ( i.e asexual ) relationship between a trans person and a bisexual woman. And before you ask, yes, I do know such a couple. The easiest solution is to think of people as persons and just screw the labels ( excuse the pun ) , but that would be common sense, we can't have that ...
Reply 16
Jonatan
... and yet you are only just scratching the surface. It doesn't start getting really confusing until you consider what labels to use for a platonic ( i.e asexual ) relationship between a trans person and a bisexual woman. And before you ask, yes, I do know such a couple. The easiest solution is to think of people as persons and just screw the labels ( excuse the pun ) , but that would be common sense, we can't have that ...


Aye, I think we all do that anyway, but we always want to know more! Its kinda like in coding: everything boils down to bytecode/machine code anyway, but we still like to know about java and c++ and bash scripting etc. Why, when we can just read the binary? Because it makes things simpler and easier to understand! I think thats part of trying to work out identifications etc in life too, and its not nessesarily a bad thing.
Reply 17
Phoenix

anyway, some trangender people don't identify a sexuality. perhaps the more simple sexuality for a trangendered person is bisexuality, because you can be either sex attracted to both sexes.


I thought the whole point of it was that you WERENT either sex, but the other sex exclusively!

now a boy who identifys as a girl who will have sex exclusivly with girls would be classed as a lesbian, simply because the TG person in question, thinks, lives and identifies as female, and is called a she by her frends and family, despite the fact she has male sexual organs (or afte she has had sex reassignment surgery, just the XY chromasome in which you can't acually see). If the TG person in question has sex with other men, dispite the fact that the may or may not still have a penis which in biological terms would make them gay, they are not, they are considered to be straight.


ah
My best friend told me she was transgender a few months ago, and I was just as confused as you! (For the record, I still refer to her as a girl to others, simply because she is physically female)

OK, so the way I see it is this. She's bi-sexual and she has a girlfriend. She feels as though she's a boy trapped in a girl's body. However, she still calls herself "bisexual." For ease, she refers to her relationship as a "gay" relationship.

Sorry, I don't know about the sex side of it, and frankly I don't want her to tell me all of the details :p:
samba
I thought the whole point of it was that you WERENT either sex, but the other sex exclusively!

the point i'm making is that is you are a boy, who is attracted to both sexes makes you bisexual, if you change your sex and become a girl, you are still attracted to both sexes and hence you are still bisexual.