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    See:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-QK35hYIWo

    Basically, it says that Gandhi looked down upon Blacks in South Africa, and thought that they were savages. It reports what he said and what he wrote on the matter.
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    Hmm. Sounds like conjecture to me, given that Gandhi was quite anti-apartheid and saw his struggle against the British and the anti-apartheid movement as causes which were alike.
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    (Original post by Soc)
    Hmm. Sounds like conjecture to me, given that Gandhi was quite anti-apartheid and saw his struggle against the British and the anti-apartheid movement as causes which were alike.
    Is it not possible to be anti-apartheid (as the Indians were mistreated by it as well) and to look down on the South African Blacks?

    Have you seen the video? What he said about South African Blacks is recorded in writing. Here's an article i've found in the Guardian:

    Gandhi branded racist as Johannesburg honours freedom fighter
    Rory Carroll in Johannesburg
    Friday October 17, 2003
    The Guardian

    It was supposed to honour his resistance to racism in South Africa, but a new statue of Mahatma Gandhi in Johannesburg has triggered a row over his alleged contempt for black people.

    The 2.5 metre high (8ft) bronze statue depicting Gandhi as a dashing young human rights lawyer has been welcomed by Nelson Mandela, among others, for recognising the Indian who launched the fight against white minority rule at the turn of the last century.

    But critics have attacked the gesture for overlooking racist statements attributed to Gandhi, which suggest he viewed black people as lazy savages who were barely human.

    Newspapers continue to publish letters from indignant readers: "Gandhi had no love for Africans. To [him], Africans were no better than the 'Untouchables' of India," said a correspondent to The Citizen.

    Others are harsher, claiming the civil rights icon "hated" black people and ignored their suffering at the hands of colonial masters while championing the cause of Indians.

    Unveiled this month, the statue stands in Gandhi Square in central Johannesburg, not far from the office from which he worked during some of his 21 years in South Africa.

    The British-trained barrister was supposed to have been on a brief visit in 1893 to represent an Indian company in a legal action, but he stayed to fight racist laws after a conductor kicked him off a train for sitting in a first-class compartment reserved for whites.

    Outraged, he started defending Indians charged with failing to register for passes and other political offences, founded a newspaper, and formed South Africa's first organised political resistance movement. His tactics of mobilising people for passive resistance and mass protest inspired black people to organise and some historians credit Gandhi as the progenitor of the African National Congress, which formed in 1912, two years before he returned to India to fight British colonial rule.

    However, the new statue has prompted bitter recollections about some of Gandhi's writings.

    Forced to share a cell with black people, he wrote: "Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves."

    He was quoted at a meeting in Bombay in 1896 saying that Europeans sought to degrade Indians to the level of the "raw kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness".

    The Johannesburg daily This Day said GB Singh, the author of a critical book about Gandhi, had sifted through photos of Gandhi in South Africa and found not one black person in his vicinity.

    The Indian embassy in Pretoria declined to comment, as it prepared for President Thabo Mbeki's visit to India.

    Khulekani Ntshangase, a spokesman for the ANC Youth League, defended Gandhi, saying the critics missed the bigger picture of his immense contribution to the liberation struggle.

    Gandhi's offending comments were made early in his life when he was influenced by Indians working on the sugar plantations and did not get on with the black people of modern-day KwaZulu-Natal province, said Mr Ntshangase.

    "Later he got more enlightened."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/southafric...065018,00.html
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    Hmm. It is possible, though it would be hypocritical. I can't view the video right now, but would you be so kind to summarise what it is the point(s) are?

    I've studied the history of South Asia in some detail, and this kind of attitude comes across as pretty un-Gandhi like, though I stand to be corrected if there is some documented evidence to the contrary.
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    (Original post by Soc)
    Hmm. It is possible, though it would be hypocritical. I can't view the video right now, but would you be so kind to summarise what it is the point(s) are?
    Yes, I will tommorow, i'll also supply some other evidence if I can find it. I'm not necessarily arguing that Gandhi was certainly a racist, it's just that I saw the video on YouTube, and thought it would make for an interesting discussion.
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    To be honest, condemning a man for being racist against blacks in 1900 is like condemning a man for being anti-Semitic in 1800: sure it might be true, but the amount of people who didn't subscribe to such views was incredibly low.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    To be honest, condemning a man for being racist against blacks in 1900 is like condemning a man for being anti-Semitic in 1800: sure it might be true, but the amount of people who didn't subscribe to such views was incredibly low.
    The thought had occurred to me, if you looked at the views of people like George Washington, who are praised as being great men, you'd find they held views which would now be disgusting to us. However, I really just wanted to start a thread about it because I saw the video when looking on YouTube, i'm not saying it detracts from Gandhi's greatness, given the time in which he lived. By the way, in the video they do aknowledge that the USA was hardly a paragon of racial equality at the time either (the video is from an American television programme).

    Anyway, to respond to Soc's request. To summarise the video, it says:

    Gandhi said:

    "The kaffirs sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness. They're loafers... a species of humanity almost unknown among the Indians."

    It also says that his beliefs on South African Blacks was recorded in a newspaper he started, called 'Indian Opinion', published in four languages.

    Furthermore, his views on this issue, are recorded in The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, volumes 8 and 9.

    The grandson of Gandhi, in the video, argues that Gandhi lived in a time where racism was the norm, therefore he was normal. However, the creators of the video, argue that this confirms their argument that Gandi was not a saint as he is praised as being (like many historical figures are).
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    <3 Penn & Teller.

    Shame it's a bit too risque to make its way onto UK TV!
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    And who brought this to everyones attention?

    You may all now worship me.
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    Why are people surprised? You didn't expect him to be a goody two-shoes and crap teddy bears did you?

    He was human. If he was racist, well thats a shame, but its normal for people to have prejudicial views on everything especially race. If he didn't ... I'd be worried for him.
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    The problem is that people who can do good and be heroic in some ways can easily have shortcomings and failings elsehwere - it's the human condition. Too often the simplistic and dangerously simplifying forces of popular information don't allow for the anbiguities of real human achievement and failing. Take Oliver Cromwell, in some respects a righteous and brave man seeking to right what he saw as moral wrongs, in other respects a narrow minded bully and brutal killer. Generations brought up on Westerns or Transformers cartoons, or whatever else, are fed the idea that people are either outright good and beyond criticism or outright bad and beyond praise. Some are, maybe, and in some instances, like terrible acts of mass murder, can't be reconciled with, say, a love of animals, but elsewhere we have to recognise that people can be enlightened and ignorant at the same time.
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    i find it disgusting how anybody could even think about branding Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi a racist....i really think that claim is absolutely disgraceful
    a man who did so much, not just for India, not just for the World but for the entire Human Race is being branded a racist? for the man that deserved a nobel peace prize, but was not even nominated, for the man that showed the people of the world tolerance, the way to battle without violence, some people have nothing but accusations, spittable in my eyes, spittable...
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    (Original post by hustla7)
    i find it disgusting how anybody could even think about branding Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi a racist....i really think that claim is absolutely disgraceful
    a man who did so much, not just for India, not just for the World but for the entire Human Race is being branded a racist? for the man that deserved a nobel peace prize, but was not even nominated, for the man that showed the people of the world tolerance, the way to battle without violence, some people have nothing but accusations, spittable in my eyes, spittable...
    Actually...he wanted the Nazi regime to triumph over Britain
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    y would that make him racist?? was his motive to get all the Jews killed as Hitler wanted? no...im sure he didn't agree with that, ur views?
    and i find it hard to believe that he would have wanted a Nazi triumph in Britain. Britain, where he spent his university days learning to be a lawyer...i dunno about that my friend.
    I will reply once I get back from my exam :P
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    Gandhi was a bigot. He hated blacks, jews, and homosexuals.
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    (Original post by Skipper)
    Actually...he wanted the Nazi regime to triumph over Britain
    I don't think he did. He had some odd ideas about pacifism and satyargha (not sure on the spelling of that?) and said that the best way for people to fight the Nazi's was mass non-cooperation...
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    He was a ****!
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    Gandhi was a racist. His entire premise of independence was based upon the idea that an incompetent Indian government would be better in his eyes than a competent white administration.

    He probably ruined the country like no one could before him, and his groupies (nehru, rajagopalachari etc.) probably harmed the nation more than the East India Company ever could.
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    "Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves."
    No wonder. Happens to any group of people forced to live like animals, feeding off scraps of "food". Nothing racist about this comment.
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    (Original post by Skipper)
    Actually...he wanted the Nazi regime to triumph over Britain
    From what I've heard, he supported the motherland in the World Wars.
 
 
 
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