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Is this what is meant by "institutionalised racism"? watch

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    I've only really picked up on this since I moved down to London several months ago.

    In the local supermarkets round here and near work along Victoria Street, most of the people who are behind the checkouts seem to be from minority-ethnic backgrounds, while those who are the customers appear to be from either white or irrestective of ethnicity, from affluent backgrounds.

    Looking around at who seemed to be in supervisory/managerial roles, most of them seemed to be from a white background.

    There's something that just doesn't feel right about it all - in a society of "equality of opportunities" I would have thought that there would be diversity in front of and behind the tills, and upstairs in the office too.

    This then made me wonder whether firms and employers that have a large compliment of shopfloor staff from "BME" ethnicities are unconsciously holding back the ambitions and aspirations of those of us from such backgrounds by not having a clear path for those with the potential to rise up through their firms, by failing to ensure that they invest in their staff and by failing to encourage their staff to move up through the system.

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    Well it's basically racism that develops within an organisation to a point that the interests of the organisation are largely represented by racists. There have been examples of institutionalised racism in the police, for example, although they are now in the middle of a massive campaign to wipe it out.
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)

    Looking around at who seemed to be in supervisory/managerial roles, most of them seemed to be from a white background.

    ...not having a clear path for those with the potential to rise up through their firms, by failing to ensure that they invest in their staff and by failing to encourage their staff to move up through the system.

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    The kind of staff you see in the supermarkets in a 'supervisory/managerial' role, don't earn very much and you don't need many qualifications/skills to become them.

    It would be better to look at many different industries across the country and see how represented different ethnic groups are in different roles, rather than just one industry in one geographical area.
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    This then made me wonder whether firms and employers that have a large compliment of shopfloor staff from "BME" ethnicities are unconsciously holding back the ambitions and aspirations of those of us from such backgrounds by not having a clear path for those with the potential to rise up through their firms, by failing to ensure that they invest in their staff and by failing to encourage their staff to move up through the system.
    Nope, it has nothing to do with business or government.

    It has everything to do with the individuals themselves generally committing more crime, being worse educated and so forth. One can quite safely say that this is as a result of being brought up poor - it's very easy to perpetuate one's station in life rather than rise above it.
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    (Original post by Libertin du Nord)
    One can quite safely say that this is as a result of being brought up poor
    You never cease to provide me with lols, Lib. Read that out to yourself in an RP accent.

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    Its not racism, its capitalist exploitation. The supermarkets want to lower wages as much as possible and encourage government to fill this void of low paid labor through immigration.

    These people should not even be in the country, wages would stablise at whatever the market decides and the poor and desperate would not be exploited by the rich and traitorous supermarkets owners.

    its all about profit folks.
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    (Original post by Zebedee)
    Its not racism, its capitalist exploitation. The supermarkets want to lower wages as much as possible and encourage government to fill this void of low paid labor through immigration.

    These people should not even be in the country, wages would stablise at whatever the market decides and the poor and desperate would not be exploited by the rich and traitorous supermarkets owners.

    its all about profit folks.
    Oh be quite!

    The OP mentions ethnic minorities and you immediately bring immigration into the thread. It really has nothing to do with the thread topic.


    As for the thread question - 'is this what is meant by "institutionalised racism"?', no, the scenario you described really does not have anything to do with institutional racism.
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    As a reminder, this post is about the concept of institutional racism mainly within large employers - especially those with a large "BME" representation within the workforce.

    I don't want the thread to get carried away on immigration or a Marxist analysis of capitalism. They are for the politics and philosohpy boards respectively.

    It's much more a case of: "Here are some large employers. These are my observations. Does this feel right? If not, what responsibilities do both employers and the state have to rectify the situation? (And how can they go about doing that without making another group feel disadvantaged?)
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    (Original post by 1.9.8.4.)
    The OP mentions ethnic minorities and you immediately bring immigration into the thread. It really has nothing to do with the thread topic.
    I love how Zebedee cherry picks political leanings when ever it suits his anti-immigration 'keep the white race white' stance.
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    (Original post by Prince Rhyus)
    This then made me wonder whether firms and employers that have a large compliment of shopfloor staff from "BME" ethnicities are unconsciously holding back the ambitions and aspirations of those of us from such backgrounds by not having a clear path for those with the potential to rise up through their firms, by failing to ensure that they invest in their staff and by failing to encourage their staff to move up through the system.
    Just because there is an imbalance doesn't mean they're being held back.
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    Lib is right. This is a function of the poverty that just so happens to be correlated with one's closeness - in terms of lineage - to a migrant ancestor.
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    i think immigration and the employers relationship to it are very relevent to this discussion, seeing how most of these employees you have observed are from ethnic minorities.

    I can't say i've noticed your observations, quite a few store managers near me are from ethnic minorities so it appears at a glance that meritocracy is in action. There are of course plenty of white managers but you would expect that being that the UK is a traditionally white country and that more senior people will tend to be older folks, who are more likely to be white.

    The reason i brought immigration into the debate is that it is the reason why so many "lower skilled" workers are from ethnic minorities. They have been brought in to do the donkey work. (no offence, as i say i object to it).
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    (Original post by Zebedee)
    The reason i brought immigration into the debate is that it is the reason why so many "lower skilled" workers are from ethnic minorities. They have been brought in to do the donkey work. (no offence, as i say i object to it).
    Why are work visas given to unskilled workers, who do jobs like filling shelves? Surely we can get all the unskilled workers we need from EU countries?

    It's more likely that so many appeared to be from ethnic minorities because it was observed in central London.
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    Why are work visas given to unskilled workers, who do jobs like filling shelves? Surely we can get all the unskilled workers we need from EU countries?
    Excellent question, to which there is no reasonable answer as far as i can tell. Write to your MP
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    I don't like the phrase 'institutionalised racism'. Some left wing lawyer on far too much money is probably very pleased that they came up with this term. It implies that everybody who works for a particular company is racist which effectively says that everybody has a sheep-like mentality. Even if the bosses are racist, that doesn't make all their employees (or vice versa).
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    i doubt theres some form of conspiracy. ive noticed this myself in london, but ive also noticed most till monkeys are also young, so that might explain why.
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    (Original post by Picnico)
    I don't like the phrase 'institutionalised racism'. Some left wing lawyer on far too much money is probably very pleased that they came up with this term. It implies that everybody who works for a particular company is racist which effectively says that everybody has a sheep-like mentality. Even if the bosses are racist, that doesn't make all their employees (or vice versa).
    Institutional racism, as wrong and frowned upon as it rightfully should be, is not like the 'usual', explicit racism which we see in society.

    Also, the phrase very much deserves to be in the public arena because its a real issue and needs to be addressed. Also, the bashing of the left is so yesterday and makes you look pathetic.
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    (Original post by Picnico)
    I don't like the phrase 'institutionalised racism'. Some left wing lawyer on far too much money is probably very pleased that they came up with this term. It implies that everybody who works for a particular company is racist which effectively says that everybody has a sheep-like mentality. Even if the bosses are racist, that doesn't make all their employees (or vice versa).
    I was of the understanding that it refers to the structures, systems and cultures of an institution that discriminates against people on grounds of race, as opposed to an individual/group of individuals being racist.

    An institutionally racist employer (the accusation thrown at the Met Police in the 1990s) does not imply that all its employees are racist.

    The question I'm posing is about structures, systems and cultures of employers going by what I have seen - and see every day during my working day.
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    (Original post by 1.9.8.4.)
    Institutional racism, as wrong and frowned upon as it rightfully should be, is not like the 'usual', explicit racism which we see in society.

    Also, the phrase very much deserves to be in the public arena because its a real issue and needs to be addressed. Also, the bashing of the left is so yesterday and makes you look pathetic.
    An institution is made up of individuals. So if there is racism going on there then it is as a result of decision made by 1 or more individuals.

    Saying that criticising the left is 'so yesterday' is silly. You could say that criticising anything is 'so yesterday' if it has been criticised before. If anyone wants to make a start towards the end of racism in companies, the Oxford-educated (so he has no excuse to be so stupid) head of the Met needs to sacked and be forfeited of any further public money.
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    (Original post by Agamemnon)
    Why are work visas given to unskilled workers, who do jobs like filling shelves? Surely we can get all the unskilled workers we need from EU countries?

    It's more likely that so many appeared to be from ethnic minorities because it was observed in central London.

    Dunno if this refers much really, but look up the points based system in relation to people coming over here to work...If there's a need for e.g. shelf stackers, but people in the UK/EU are unwilling to do it as they find the job either 1) boring, 2) 'demeaning' as it's below them 3) they may be rejected by the store as they may be seen as over qualified and so the store knows the person will soon be off with a job that pays more or challenges them or what have you... (I don't know..I talk a lot of crap a lot of the time)
 
 
 
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