If a federal republic is required to save the UK

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    My contention is this-

    The monarchy, and the type of Britain we have, is inextricably linked to the post imperial malaise and the ultra conservatism as found in home counties England.
    It is also inextricably linked to our conception of Britain, regional divides and inequality. This and the political culture that surround it and its accoutrements(Class consciousness, nay, obsession in general), and the stubborn and unquestioning refusal to consider alternatives is what is adding fuel to the fire of Scottish independence.
    It is also what acts as a smokescreen from evaluating ourselves objectively and and on merit, and maybe fittingly from evaluating others solely on merit. What I mean is we are still impervious to modern geopolitical realities, we may be told them objectively but people remain remarkably, instinctively self-deceiving about them and our total lack of independence from US policy. It's all part of the problem.

    The queen may have had a role as head of former colonies, the empire has been moving away.

    We must forge a new Britain and I believe the time is ripe for a federal republic that offers flexiblity, but at the same time unites more then we are now- witness the huge north south economic cultural divide, not to mention that between London and elsewhere. I'd actually be up for London having the autonomy of Scotland and Wales too. I really think a less class conscious (and less divided by wealth regionally) England would make for a far more interesting, informed and dynamic England that spread it's activity across itself.

    It is an exciting opportunity for a new model of Britain, it is a nonsense to me to say we'd be less unique- I think the current settlement is stifling. I think we would see all the best of this country come out, but the main regard in which I think we would no longer see potential go to waste is class and in uniting regions, whilst still retaining flexibility and in making the north prosperous again.

    My second point is this. Whether you agree or not with the model or not, if it were necessary to preserve the union- I think unionist Scots, and Welsh and a lot of the North and London would go for it. Clearly the conservative type counties of England are the biggest barrier to it, and they are politically powerful.

    Where are you from, and would you support it if it saved the union. I am asking a hypothetical, please appreciate that.
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    Not a chance and i'm appalled that these ideas come from you of all people.
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    Interestingly I have thought about this idea before, but from a different perspective. The EU referendum has provided clarity that a majority of people prefer home-rule (as in, more localised to them), and this has a number of advantages such as being more responsive to the demands of the population, and even just 'feeling' closer (I think geography does play a subconscious role in this tbh). I do find it funny how we can claim to have a democracy whilst still having a monarch, but for the time being I recognise that it brings in more money that it costs so the pragmatic thing to do is keep it, even if I disagree ideologically. I used to be quite opposed to devolution for Scotland and the rest, and I still do believe that it has its flaws (mainly clashes between the local government and the national government), but if people are 'happier' this way then I suppose it is the more utilitarian thing to do. By being happier, they may even remain more enthusiastic about the union, although the SNP make it clear that greater autonomy can create supporters of complete independence, which is in neither Scotland nor the UK's national interest.

    I actually think that EU federalism with devolved powers to the states and an elected president would function better than the current union so I'll be closely watching how the EU presses ahead with integration over the coming years, now that the British roadblock has been removed. I do wish they had an associate member status though, without free movement and some of the other laws, but with closer trade links. I'd want the eastern nations to be put into this category upon joining, and only when their economy is on a similar level to that of the richer nations should they become a 'full' member with free movement. I wouldn't support UK federalism, but devolution isn't a bad thing. I don't support the monarchy in principle, but it is economically beneficial at least and has only limited powers. I want to do the most pragmatic/overall beneficial thing in both circumstances though, so for the time being I'm happy with the current system.
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    I understand your points, but I think you might have pushed it too far ideologically.

    The monarchy to me is a good thing. Imagine if at one point, for some reason, the UK became similar to Nazi Germany wagering war on other countries, it would actually be useful to have the monarchy as a last-lifeline. The Monarch has the power to take full control of the country and the army pledges its allegiance to him/her. Also I must note that the royal family brings an overall net income for the British economy as they are a major tourist attraction. In a financial point of view, they are a very good investment.
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    Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy.
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    When you consider that our next head of state is going to be Prince Charles...

    My republicanism has softened in recent times. I'd be open to some sort of triumvirate- possibly elected by parliament.
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    I wonder how many tourists actually get to meet the queen?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I wonder how many tourists actually get to meet the queen?
    The fact that they don't meet the Queen is what makes her an attraction. Just go to Buckingham palace and you'll see the amount of tourists income the Monarchy attracts, not to mention memorabilia sold around London.
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    I live in Kent and go to London semi frequently. I don't think it will make an impact as they can easily give greater prominence to other attractions. When Liz pops her clogs and her idiot sin is crowned I think support will plummet.
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    'save' from what, exactly?
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    Fragmenting.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Not a chance and i'm appalled that these ideas come from you of all people.
    What do you mean? Because I am for Brexit? In what sense, in term of which ideas, do you expect me to be a monarchist?
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    Fragmenting.
    So in order to save it from fragmenting, you'll risk it fragmenting?


    Yep, makes perfect sense.


    Tell me, do you ever visit the real world?
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    So in order to save it from fragmenting, you'll risk it fragmenting?


    Yep, makes perfect sense.


    Tell me, do you ever visit the real world?
    What the one where Hillary will win the US election, Brexit will never happen and every piece of received, established wisdom parroted by the indoctrinated is the way and the light? Wouldn't want to to be honest.

    Well obviously thicko, since you are trying to be condescending, we will start from the point that I don't believe a contradiction...to spell it out, I don't believe the union will fragment via a republic, since a federal republic is more conducive to keeping Scotland in the UK, rather than the entrenched monarchist conservatism of the home counties, and all it's associated minions of bleating little Englanders, which is helping the cause of propelling them out of the union. Of course establishment 'queen and countreh' people are rather to myopic and arrogant to understand this, or anything outside their smug worldview.
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    (Original post by CherishFreedom)
    The fact that they don't meet the Queen is what makes her an attraction. Just go to Buckingham palace and you'll see the amount of tourists income the Monarchy attracts, not to mention memorabilia sold around London.
    I hope you're not using that as the justification. It's irrelevant.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    What the one where Hillary will win the US election, Brexit will never happen and every piece of received, established wisdom parroted by the indoctrinated is the way and the light? Wouldn't want to to be honest.

    Well obviously thicko, since you are trying to be condescending, we will start from the point that I don't believe a contradiction...to spell it out, I don't believe the union will fragment via a republic, since a federal republic is more conducive to keeping Scotland in the UK, rather than the entrenched monarchist conservatism of the home counties, and all it's associated minions of bleating little Englanders, which is helping the cause of propelling them out of the union. Of course establishment 'queen and countreh' people are rather to myopic and arrogant to understand this, or anything outside their smug worldview.
    Yes numpty, I get that, but don't you think that imposing such a thing risks the people who's opinion you're trying to ignore themselves having issues and then fragmenting?

    You're suggesting / talking about something that could prevent one area splitting, but that could in fact cause another area to split.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    I hope you're not using that as the justification. It's irrelevant.
    I'm only explaining how the Queen is a tourist attraction.

    My justification to your original post is on post #4.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Yes numpty, I get that, but don't you think that imposing such a thing risks the people who's opinion you're trying to ignore themselves having issues and then fragmenting?

    You're suggesting / talking about something that could prevent one area splitting, but that could in fact cause another area to split.

    No. There is no way the south-east or home counties would split. They can't. They don't have the imagination or need for change. They simply are stubborn adherers to the status quo and permanent enemies of curiosity and political change. So you need to mobilize and bring together all the other factions that need change and get the solution needed for them- the rest can be left to peacefully, albeit slightly more resentfully for a time, dwell in their bog.

    I love these names by the way.....dead homoerotic.
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    In the good old days you'd have been blown from the gun for such a deplorable idea!
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    (Original post by Napp)
    In the good old days you'd have been blown from the gun for such a deplorable idea!
    Odd how so many modern Britians can contain within them the deeply odd contradiction of vehement small c Conservative monarchism and love of class distinction, and yet so actively despise the notion of an independent UK looking to it's own national interests. Peculiar times indeed.

    I myself am a patriot but my patriotism is tempered by the type of conservatism exemplified by home counties, monarchist England, and all it's precipitative effects and accoutrements. That's the 'hate' side of the love/hate equation I think.

    I think I would be a died in the wool republican patriot. It would be like the protestant republic we always should have been, if the roundheads had won. It would be like the best of the British founders vision of the US, combined with the best in English radicalism, and all of modern day Britain.

    Like a fusion of the best elements of both modern countries.

    And it would not have that absurd regional and class apartheid like nations within nations, there would be no consciousness of that and far more cross-pollination and thus more ideas and prosperity and mobility.

    None of this regional cultural chasm anymore.
 
 
 
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